Hitch
was often very solicitous of people of faith and was close friends with many including Andrew Sullivan. Hitchens also has been pretty clear about JPII's virtues along with his vices. Hitchens attacked the Catholic Church with such persistence and focus out of a sort of paradoxical respect. He realized that from an intellectual viewpoint, the Catholic Church is the most developed, serious and internally consistent of the major faith traditions. He admitted as much. As someone with long Trotskyist training, he knew that you needed to attack the strongest citadel to disprove the whole construct and he did so with zeal.
Since we keep circling to Fry, I think the money thing is a weaker but still colorable point. His point re More is unpleasant but true and I say this as a fan of More, who is a more complex and difficult case (and therefore far more interesting) than the plaster saint version. I recommend the novel Wolf Hall to which Fry refers. It is a fun take on the English Reformation from the Protestant side. As far as the Church's situation with regard to the abuse scandals and its deflecting, hypocritical treatment of gay people, I think he and Hitchens simply scorched the other side. I also note his reference to Ratzinger's conduct re Maciel, which was criminal. Finally, I think he is dead-on re the Church's politics on contraception in Africa.
Complete thread:
- that Gladwell/Bissinger debate was the first -
Jay,
2012-05-12, 16:24
- I think the metric for Kelly is annual improvement -
Jeff (BGS),
2012-05-13, 06:26
- "At some point wins matter" but when is that? -
Chris (HCC),
2012-05-13, 06:42
- Wins are data. Not the only data. Not always the best data. -
LaFortune Teller,
2012-05-13, 19:10
- "Clunky" is a great word for it -
Jeff (BGS),
2012-05-14, 08:07
- Texas A&M 2011: Discuss.
-
Ken Fowler,
2012-05-14, 12:56
- and -
Jay,
2012-05-14, 16:12
- But at some point, the pedal has to hit the metal. -
Bill,
2012-05-14, 19:26
- Or the petal hit the medal
-
Jeff (BGS),
2012-05-15, 06:11
- the way I look at it -
Jay,
2012-05-14, 19:47
- That's a valid point. -
Bill,
2012-05-14, 20:23
- In general, I agree. But... -
Greg,
2012-05-15, 11:14
- I was actually talking about sane people. -
Bill,
2012-05-15, 11:26
- Ah. Gotcha. - Greg, 2012-05-15, 11:38
- I was actually talking about sane people. -
Bill,
2012-05-15, 11:26
- I think credibility plays out in recruiting -
Jay,
2012-05-15, 10:57
- Chicken and egg question - Jeff (BGS), 2012-05-15, 18:43
- Agreed
-
Bill,
2012-05-15, 11:26
- I think there is another goal than winning the championship -
Jeff (BGS),
2012-05-14, 22:35
- That's why I included [and competing for]
-
Bill,
2012-05-15, 05:55
- That's why I included [and competing for]
- In general, I agree. But... -
Greg,
2012-05-15, 11:14
- That's a valid point. -
Bill,
2012-05-14, 20:23
- Or the petal hit the medal
- But at some point, the pedal has to hit the metal. -
Bill,
2012-05-14, 19:26
- and -
Jay,
2012-05-14, 16:12
- Texas A&M 2011: Discuss.
- "Clunky" is a great word for it -
Jeff (BGS),
2012-05-14, 08:07
- That's the $64,000 question - Jeff (BGS), 2012-05-13, 10:29
- Wins are data. Not the only data. Not always the best data. -
LaFortune Teller,
2012-05-13, 19:10
- "At some point wins matter" but when is that? -
Chris (HCC),
2012-05-13, 06:42
- Brian Kelly is making us more partisan.
-
domer.mq,
2012-05-12, 18:21
- Resolved: Kelly is building the foundation for an NC at ND
-
Jeff (BGS),
2012-05-12, 17:27
- Not sure what 'proof' there is to claim there -
Bill,
2012-05-12, 18:27
- cosign
-
HumanRobot,
2012-05-13, 08:31
- cosign
- good one -
Jay,
2012-05-12, 17:37
- "Notre Dame needs Brian Kelly right now"
-
Mike (bart),
2012-05-12, 21:17
- That one is interesting -
Jeremy (WeIsND),
2012-05-12, 18:13
- I thought of adding the modifier "today" - Jay, 2012-05-12, 18:30
- "Notre Dame needs Brian Kelly right now"
- Not sure what 'proof' there is to claim there -
Bill,
2012-05-12, 18:27
- Intelligence Squared is very fun -
NDSF,
2012-05-12, 17:09
- I can just imagine -
bpeters07,
2012-05-13, 05:52
- You mean "lying, thieving Albanian dwarf" -
NDSF,
2012-05-13, 09:06
- It was "thieving, fanatical Albanian dwarf." -
Slainte Joe,
2012-05-13, 21:13
- Fry is no Hitchens -
NDSF,
2012-05-13, 21:23
- I did. - Slainte Joe, 2012-05-13, 21:30
- Fry is no Hitchens -
NDSF,
2012-05-13, 21:23
- It was "thieving, fanatical Albanian dwarf." -
Slainte Joe,
2012-05-13, 21:13
- You mean "lying, thieving Albanian dwarf" -
NDSF,
2012-05-13, 09:06
- I put that one on the queue -
Jay,
2012-05-12, 17:36
- The Church gets precisely what it deserves
-
NDSF,
2012-05-12, 17:38
- Fry is certainly charming ... -
Slainte Joe,
2012-05-12, 18:35
- watched it last night -
Jay,
2012-05-14, 11:34
- Even there, I prefer Hitchens's full frontal ... -
Slainte Joe,
2012-05-14, 18:52
- Hitch -
NDSF,
2012-05-14, 19:34
- On Maciel ... -
Slainte Joe,
2012-05-14, 19:56
- I would enjoy that -
NDSF,
2012-05-14, 20:25
- Sounds good. - Slainte Joe, 2012-05-14, 20:59
- I would enjoy that -
NDSF,
2012-05-14, 20:25
- On Maciel ... -
Slainte Joe,
2012-05-14, 19:56
- Hitch -
NDSF,
2012-05-14, 19:34
- Even there, I prefer Hitchens's full frontal ... -
Slainte Joe,
2012-05-14, 18:52
- He was horrid. -
Buck Mulligan,
2012-05-12, 19:49
- The experience of debating Hitchens ... - Slainte Joe, 2012-05-13, 05:06
- watched it last night -
Jay,
2012-05-14, 11:34
- Fry is certainly charming ... -
Slainte Joe,
2012-05-12, 18:35
- The Church gets precisely what it deserves
- I can just imagine -
bpeters07,
2012-05-13, 05:52
- I think the metric for Kelly is annual improvement -
Jeff (BGS),
2012-05-13, 06:26