Detroit Crossroads

by CK08, Monday, July 21, 2014, 12:57 (3567 days ago)

Mike Ilitch's plan for a new Red Wings arena includes apartments and offices surrounding the venue:

[image]

I know there was some criticism of ND including multiple non-sports uses in the stadium, but I think this is a great idea in an urban setting (rather than a campus one). Although I am skeptical of all the announced development being built, it is a certainty that the arena itself will be hidden behind active uses, which is great news.

Here's an article with more details:

http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20140720/NEWS03/140719845

OT: But, wow

by Mike (bart), Tuesday, July 22, 2014, 13:36 (3566 days ago) @ CK08

[image]

Their economy is based on LeBron James, after all

by CK08, Tuesday, July 22, 2014, 14:25 (3565 days ago) @ Mike (bart)

Cleveland's arena was partially funded by a tax people pay on tickets to events in the arena? Interesting.

How easy will it be to turn off the water?

by Samari, Bahston, Monday, July 21, 2014, 13:52 (3567 days ago) @ CK08

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The nice thing about that devleopment is that area is empty.

by PAK, Monday, July 21, 2014, 13:00 (3567 days ago) @ CK08

Now, part of the reason it's empty is because Illich has been buying land there for years in anticipation of this project, but even back before that, the area didn't have much going on for it. It wasn't BAD, per se, just not a lot going on there. This will hopefully make the entertainment district a bit bigger and breathe life into those neighborhoods as well.

Is Detroit at the point where ANY development is good?

by Jeff (BGS) @, A starter home in suburban Tempe, Monday, July 21, 2014, 13:33 (3567 days ago) @ PAK

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Depends who you ask.

by Kevin @, Monday, July 21, 2014, 13:42 (3567 days ago) @ Jeff (BGS)

Some people would say yes. Others would say that they haven't stuck it out there just to watch the place turn into Indianapolis.

I don't live there and don't take a side, but I understand both points of view. I do sense a little self-righteousness from white people who have lived in the city the past ten years, but it's not unearned. People can be uncompromising about their passions, and no one casually chooses to live in Detroit.

For someone with no frame of reference...

by Greg, seemingly ranch, Monday, July 21, 2014, 13:44 (3567 days ago) @ Kevin

...what is the meaning of the Indianapolis line? I'm interested in redevelopment, and am asking purely out of that interest and not to try to start any arguments. If there is anything worth reading that will give a deeper picture of the redevelopment of Indianapolis and of what you mean by sticking it out in Detroit, I'd love links to articles too.

Thanks.

--
The 2007 ND-UCLA game was a once in a lifetime experience, I hope

Detroit is unmistakably Detroit

by CK08, Monday, July 21, 2014, 14:08 (3567 days ago) @ Greg

From the street pattern to the architecture to the music to the sports to the blight to the crime to the history. Those who love it love it for exactly what it is.

Some other places tend to be more interchangeable, even if they are objectively "nicer." This is especially true for places that grew in the 70s-90s, like Indy, Columbus, and a lot of places in the South.

By introducing new investment, some may feel that unmistakable character is being lost. Even in the case of a vacant building being replaced by something occupied and vibrant, some people are frustrated by what they feel is a loss of history. There will be an example of this phenomenon as the arena construction gets underway and the fate of these two buildings (which I referenced in another post, labelled as Number 4 on the picture in the original post) becomes clear:

[image]

It is likely those will be torn down, for obvious reasons. But there are people who remember when they were luxury hotels that made Detroit's Park Avenue rival New York's. Or at least they want to try to hold onto that era.

Frankly, I think we're a long way from losing the soul of the city. Especially because the people investing right now are doing it out of a love of the City. Also there is a potent combination of cheap land and rapidly rising demand not seen elsewhere, but Dan Gilbert and Mike Ilitch aren't pouring billions into development because a real estate analyst told them to. They're investing because they want to see Detroit become the best Detroit it can be.

Some want a certain kind of re-birth there.

by Kevin @, Monday, July 21, 2014, 13:58 (3567 days ago) @ Greg

I don't know anything about Indy, either. I haven't been there since I was ten. That's a line borrowed from a friend who lives in Detroit. I think Indianapolis is a placeholder that could apply just as well (or better) to Laclede's Landing or Navy Pier. Faux Irish bars, big expensive grocery stores, Bubba Gump's, Dave n' Busters, etc.

Some want to Detroit to re-emerge in the image of those who stayed or moved in. Some mix of Brooklyn and Harlem, Wicker Park and Bronzeville.

There are also others, who often hold City Council seats, who are reflexively opposed to anything that might threaten their power or fail to enrich them. Detroit doesn't have problems for no reason.

I get this sense anecdotally, but I've read some odds and ends. I'll try to dig up some links.

A couple articles for insight

by Kevin @, Monday, July 21, 2014, 14:03 (3567 days ago) @ Kevin

The first is not directly responsive, but linked to give you a flavor for the discussions. The second, re Capitol Park, is closer to being on point.

http://metrotimes.com/covers/so-you-want-to-be-a-detroiter-1.1644219

http://m.metrotimes.com/news/capitol-park-artists-get-the-boot-1.1632841

metrotimes generally is a good place to poke around on this subject.

Thanks!

by Greg, seemingly ranch, Monday, July 21, 2014, 14:09 (3567 days ago) @ Kevin

I'll poke around that site. Much appreciated.

--
The 2007 ND-UCLA game was a once in a lifetime experience, I hope

In that neighborhood, absolutely

by CK08, Monday, July 21, 2014, 13:41 (3567 days ago) @ Jeff (BGS)

The area where the arena will go is a complete dead zone surrounded by the City's two most promising districts (Downtown and Midtown). So just building something will connect existing areas of activity. Building something cool and innovative like the proposed arena and mixed use liner buildings could be a real catalyst.

In general, I think the only time I would personally have a reservation about a development is if it proposed to tear down one of our well-preserved historic buildings. And even then, I'd think about it depending on the proposal and the building in question.

Still interested to see what happens

by CK08, Monday, July 21, 2014, 13:09 (3567 days ago) @ PAK

to the Eddystone and Harbor Light buildings.

They are in the rendering, but there is no specific plan to redevelop them. And certainly they aren't going to sit windowless with "Zombieland" graffiti on them right next to the arena.

But it's notable that those empty buildings (and maybe Harry's Bar) are the only things being "displaced" by this development. Most of the site is empty lots.

I also want to see the upgrades planned for Cass Park, which has the potential to be a really awesome public space if cleaned up and surrounded with the right development.

One thing's for sure after reading that article and seeing..

by PAK, Monday, July 21, 2014, 13:19 (3567 days ago) @ CK08

how he's run the Wings and the Tigers the last few years - Mike Illich has no desire to take any of it with him. He wants to spend it ALL and hopefully see some of the benefits before he croaks.

Right, and

by Mike (bart), Monday, July 21, 2014, 13:03 (3567 days ago) @ PAK

the stuff they're building is actually at a scale that, you know, human beings will be comfortable around...

a 20,000 seat, semi-below grade arena could actually conceivably be used to purpose 200+ days of the year...

there's some impetus for a huge, self-contained development in this part of Detroit, it seems. And even then, it's still about a million times more permeable than Crossroads

EDIT: Forgot that they'ere doing this with like 30% public financing, which seems rather shocking, even if (I imagine) they're using TIF funding here

It is TIF funding

by CK08, Monday, July 21, 2014, 13:07 (3567 days ago) @ Mike (bart)

The DDA should make its money back, especially because the land is so worthless right now (so the increased property taxes would be almost all increment), although the fact that they agreed to be the nominal owner of the arena (so Ilitch doesn't have to pay taxes on it) is kind of a frustrating move.

What's the cap on how much the increment can take each year?

by Mike (bart), Monday, July 21, 2014, 13:52 (3567 days ago) @ CK08

it's not a bad idea out of hand, but I'm sure Detroit Public Schools, Detroit PD, etc. could use that 16th million a lot more than Illitch-ville might need it,

Not sure. That's probably part of the deal.

by CK08, Monday, July 21, 2014, 13:56 (3567 days ago) @ Mike (bart)

It's different for every DDA in Michigan (and there are A LOT of them). The Detroit DDA actually expanded its boundaries in order to encompass the arena site, which gives all the entities that have revenues captured by the DDA an option to opt out. I haven't heard of any doing so, which is actually kind of surprising.

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