http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/24156338/34678984

- No text -

- No text -

- No text -

believe me, I don't agree with everything Meyer did or does, but the word "poaching" was always just a poor choice of words in my mind.

Coaches and players should be able to go wherever they feel best. UF has lost some guys on signing day too under Meyer, just part of it sometimes.

I don't agree by any means with a coach telling a player to lie to another school - ultimately though, the player can choose to be up front as well.

The end game here is that Big Ten coaches start investing time and energy going after Meyer's commitments, forcing him to spend time and energy defending his base. Meyer has been the first mover here, but if he ends up in an 11-on-1 situation, it will be his own fault.

If he does it to a B1G, he's not only making his team stronger but an opponent weaker all at the same time.

This is from one of the moderators on the OSU forum.

Poaching and an apparent shot at Neal. What an a*shole.

***

Needless to say, be brought it.

Meyer was speaking to a packed house of high school coaches from around the state of Ohio. Also a few college coaches, like Darrell Hazell and Marcus Freeman.

All of Meyer's assistant coaches were sitting up front as he spoke on "performance excellence." I promise you every coach in that place went home with a new idea of how to coach players and get the best from each guy on the roster.

Meyer apparently heard the complaining from Bret Bielema and Mark Dantonio. He had this to say during this morning's clinic:

"You're pissed because we went after a committed guy? Guess what, we got 9 guys who better go do it again," he said motioning to his assistants in the front of the room.

"Do it a little harder next time."

Meyer also said that they passed on an out of state WR "at the last second" because his last step is out of bounds. They want guys who finish hard.

- No text -

He's going to an interesting case study in Columbus.

If that starts happening regularly kids won't trust Alabama, will they?

- No text -

- No text -

Which is what they're already doing now as juniors because the NCAA won't allow them to take officials. Extending the period on the front end does nothing but provide prospective recruits the potential for some relief on travel expenses earlier in the process. There's no meaningful downside from their perspective.

I could be wrong, but it seems like a majority of recruits don't even take all 5 of their official visits anymore.

But there's definitely an aroma that comes with Meyer's tactics.

does not excuse some of Meyer's behavior. For example, telling a kid (*cough* Omar Hunter) to keep the fact that he's changed his mind a secret--assuming that story is true--is distasteful, if not unethical, in my opinion.

- No text -

- No text -

paragon of academic integrity. Granted, it isn't the cesspool that is the SEC where most fans don't care if their school cheats or graduates players as long as you win, but a note to the B-#: please don't pretend you are something you aren't.

Meyer is on record as stating that the advantage of his method is that he knows whom to shoot at with a committed recruit. If he's one of five schools battling for a kid then he has to fight four other opponents. But if the kid is committed, say to ND, Meyer can then (negatively) direct his fire toward one school for maximum impact. And if the recruit is open to it (Trattou/Hunter) then the target school might not even know that they're getting undermined.

Its sleazy but its not a dumb strategy.

and they, for whatever reason, withdraw their offers in March. The kid didn't do anything wrong but he'd then be down to three OV's for the remainder of his recruiting cycle.

You're not going to make it perfect but I'm kinda looking for the right balance between schools & prospects when we're essentially doubling the prospect recruitment time.

I do see what you're saying though and it does have merit.

http://bluegraysky.com/forum/index.php?id=87281

- No text -

Half of the guys he offers he only does so after other schools identify them as top talent. I can't blame him though--it's within the rules, and he doesn't have to waste time identifying legitimate talent. If the kid isn't sold, he's not sold, but he's gaming the system and letting other teams do the work for him.

Take Decker for example: Rather unremarkable offer list, but Michigan, Wisconsin, and ND wanted him--ergo, he's worthy of Urban. Everybody offers the DGB's of the world, but it's the Decker-types whom Urban preys upon.

Less whining.

It's the existence of a B10 "gentlemen's agreement", and the brash upstart riling up the grand old Establishment. They're all crying to Daddy Delany now.

He can't troll ND AND the entire B1G at the same right, right?

3 of Ohio's last 10 Mr. Footballs have done or will do hard time.

Really ugly story about a recent two time winner.

http://fox8.com/2012/02/02/former-mr-football-found-guilty-of-rape-robbery-kidnapping/

Keep it at 5. Allow kids to take officials from the day after signing day of their junior year up through the day before signing day of their senior year. The kid (and school) can decide when the kid will be on each of the 5 campuses he can officially visit. And the school(s) decide when to offer and whether that offer is committable before or after the early signing period.

If the NCAA made all the changes you propose, it would lead to the same shit that we have now going on earlier in the process. Change less and you'll see whether schools (and kids) are really serious about offers. A little difficulty for both sides clarifies.

If only so they could attend a game in their sport. You would also have to increase the number of visits that recruits could make and schools could have. If you kept the current OV total at 5 and a kid takes 3 OV's as a Jr and some of those schools either don't offer, or pull their offer, the recruit would then be down to two visits his Sr season for all his offers. That wouldn't work. Secondly you would have to increase the number of campus visits that a school could have because if you include Jr's the number shoots way past the current yearly visit total.

His wife doesn't wash the stubs

At least in the spring or summer of their junior years, if not the fall prior.

As per usual, the NCAA is oblivious to how the game has changed in this respect.

whether Meyer's tactics -- though not apparently illegal -- offend traditional midwestern sensibilities. Won't happen in Ohio, of course, where EVERYBODY is lining up to play for OSU, no matter what. But most folks in the midwest -- especially outside of the big cities -- have more traditional, small-town values. In the South, folks have values, but everybody knows that football recruiting is completely sleazy and has been forever, so that gets carved out. But I think it's those types of values that made ND fans bristle about the meaning of "commitment" and other things in connection with the Hunter and Trattou affairs (and others).

It will be interesting to see what happens when Meyer pulls out his whole bag of tricks in, say, rural Wisconsin, to try to pry a Wisconsin kid away from UW. He may end up pissing off a coach very much. Or parents. And will they go to the papers over it?

- No text -

- No text -

Not at all."

He saves a lot of time and effort by allowing other programs to identify talented players. He waits in the tall grass licking himself, while other coaches roam the landscape searching for the next "can't-miss" recruit.

These coaches, in turn, begin contacting recruits and scheduling camps and establishing a hierarchy of players. Meyer, meanwhile, continues to lick himself, and then takes a nap.

At long last, other coaches have spent weeks or months evaluating recruits and securing "verbal" commitments. Meyer awakens, defecates, and then pounces on unsuspecting recruits. He convinces them to "silently" or "not-so-silently" commit to him, the single greatest coach in the history of college football.

These recruits, lured by the promises of learning from a coach who places winning football games above his own family, his health, and any consideration for ethics, morality, or the burning fires of Hell, are quick to pledge their souls to him. Meyer has a special case of psychosis, a nasty combination of sexual deviance and obsessive compulsive disorder, that forces him to target ND recruits. He also wipes his ass with old Notre Dame paycheck stubs from when he coached there. His wife washes those stubs so he can use them again.

The other Big Whatever coaches should realize that life as they know it has ended. Urban Meyer sits atop their food chain. He will continue to feed on the rest of the Big Whatever carcases until either the Big Whatever Commissioner forces him to follow rules or he has a heart attack and dies.

kids are free to choose where they want to play. If a coach can sway them to change their commitment, they obviously weren't completely sold on that school.

If anything, the player is more to blame for saying he's signing with one school when it turns out he's not.

There was a coaching change. Just because a kid is not interested in a coachless OSU does not mean he can't legitimately change his mind when they hire an all-world coach. If it happened sans coaching change, I would be more sympathetic.

I'd like to note my prediction:

http://www.bluegraysky.com/forum/index.php?id=77379

- No text -

but you'd have to tweak some things. For example if you have an early signing period, say mid August, you'd then have to allow Jr's to take official visits. Otherwise you'd put a large part of your talent pool (namely, black kids from the inner city) who lack the means to make visits at their own expense at a real disadvantage.

But in the main I agree, that an early signing period is best for both sides. Problem is a lot of coaches don't want an early signing period because a lot of development goes on during a Sr season. If you start locking yourself into kids too early, and they've plateaued as Jr's, you'll be in trouble when those kids have to play. This is especially true now that conferences are moving towards a hard 4 year scholarship.

Might have been the quality of visuals on ESPNU, but he looked pale and rather emaciated. He hasn't even coached a game yet.

He's a slave to star ratings and offers from certain programs.

Noah Spence is a poster child for the kind of kid Urban said he wanted to get away from, the kind of kid he complained about in terms of killing the chemistry on his last team at Florida.

The word on Spence down at the Under ARmour game was horrible. Total head case.

One of the first kids Meyer went after, and got to commit, at Ohio State

Maybe literally, if he was ever sick in the first place. He'd actually have to work at talent identification instead of sitting back and waiting for others to do it for him. As Martin said in his interview yesterday, an early date like they have in basketball would solve a lot of problems for both schools and kids.

Kids would know that the school is serious about them and is committed to them. Schools would know that a kid is either all-in or still looking. And if either side was not ready to make a commitment by the first signing day (or early "period" -- say August 1-15 before a kid's senior year) then the kid would be fair game for the Meyers of the world, but the schools would know what they were dealing with.

Use Decker and Darby as examples of kids who gave verbals and could have committed during an early signing period. If they're not ready to commit for real, then they don't have to. But ND knows there's a big difference between a kid who is actually signed and a kid who just says he is. Or heck, use any number of one-time Cal commits this year.

over "illegal" recruiting tactics.

---------------------

http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2012-02-02/urban-meyer-negative-recruit...

Urban's "˜illegal' recruiting tactics a big issue for Bielema, Big Ten

So this is what it has come to. After 60-plus days on the job at Ohio State, there's no avoiding it.

Either the Big Ten bows to Urban Meyer, or Urban Meyer bows to the Big Ten.

"I can tell you this," says Wisconsin coach Bret Bielema. "We at the Big Ten don't want to be like the SEC-in any way, shape or form."

Just so we're clear: Bielema wasn't talking about winning national championships. He was talking about Meyer's recruiting tactics-and how after a little more than two months on the job, Meyer already is getting under the skin of his colleagues.

Just how much, you ask? Bielema, whose teams have won more games than any other Big Ten team in his six seasons in Madison, says Badgers athletic director Barry Alvarez will speak Friday with Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany about Meyer's recruiting methods during the league's athletic director meetings in Chicago.

During his National Signing Day press conference, Bielema hinted that Meyer was using "illegal" recruiting practices. He said as much again Thursday when contacted by Sporting News, and without getting into specifics offered this:

"I called Urban and we spoke about it," Bielema said. "We talked about it, and he said it would stop and it did. I'll let our commissioner deal with anything else. That's not who we are (in the Big Ten). We settle things among ourselves as coaches."

MORE FROM SPORTING NEWS

SN's Top 25 recruiting classes | Conference-by-conference rankings | Where SN's Top 125 are headed | Recapping National Signing Day

One issue Bielema would talk about-and it's perfectly legal under current NCAA rules-is Meyer's recruitment of players who already had given verbal commitments to other Big Ten schools. It has been a longstanding "gentlemen's agreement" in the league that coaches wouldn't recruit players who had publicly given commitments to schools.

And here is where the two roads meet-where the Big Ten's long history of playing nice could succumb to the SEC's 21st Century pressure of winning it all. Someone, somewhere once said the most sincere form of flattery is copying the SEC.

Or something like that.

There's a reason the SEC had 10 of its 14 teams in the Sporting News Top 25 recruiting rankings, and how that directly correlates to the SEC being the clear No.1 in on-field performance. Look, Vanderbilt-for love of God, Vanderbilt-had a better recruiting class than 10 of the Big Ten's 12 schools.

Only Ohio State and Michigan had better classes. And now we know why Ohio State did: a little Deep South flavor to Midwest recruiting.

FROM SI: Meyer's first Buckeyes class stellar

Meyer got four-star DE Se'Von Pittman to switch from Michigan State, and four-star OL Kyle Dodson to switch from Wisconsin. Four others-including the best player in Ohio State's class (DE Noah Spence)-switched from Penn State. In fact, eight of the 10 players Meyer landed since accepting the job were already committed to other schools.

So what does Urb have to say for himself? He called the criticism "nonsense" on his Wednesday night radio show, and pointed out that his philosophy is simple: call and ask. That's where he comes into direct contrast with the "gentlemen's agreement"-and where the Big Ten differs from the SEC.

The SEC has no such agreement, and Meyer's ability to flip recruits forced an already chippy group of SEC coaches to fall in line or fall behind-and in the process turned recruiting in the SEC from a heavyweight fight to a bloodbath.

"If they're interested, absolutely (you recruit them)-especially from your home state," Meyer said. "Is it gratifying to take a guy from another school? Not at all."

The reality is Meyer is paid to win games; paid to elevate the Ohio State program beyond the point where Jim Tressel got it with the help of a back judge. He doesn't have time to worry about gentlemen's agreements or offending other coaches.

A year after Meyer arrived at Florida, the SEC's string of six straight national championships began. The Gators manhandled heavily-favored Ohio State in the BCS National Championship Game in 2006, and the talent discrepancy was as stunning as it was significant.

It's only greater now.

So the question then becomes: What's more important-an agreement or a championship? Either the Big Ten bows to Urban, or Urban bows to the Big Ten.

"There's a common thread in this league," Bielema said. "Every time we walk into a coaches meeting in the offseason, there's a mutual sign of respect."

That and a nine-year streak of watching someone else hold up the Waterford crystal trophy at the end of the season.

Fall in line or fall behind.

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120202/OPINION03/202020361/Backyard-recruiting-bra...

The battling is here to stay, on the field and off. Meyer brings an SEC raid-everyone's-commit-cupboards mentality. Hoke brings an old-school devotion to trench warfare. And Dantonio remains an unflinching fighter. He was especially irritated by the Buckeyes' poaching of one-time top Spartan commit Se'Von Pittman, something his mentor, Jim Tressel, wouldn't have done.

"They've got a new coach, and it's different," Dantonio said. "I would say it's pretty unethical, in the end."