Emily Wilson critique of the Odyssey

by Jay, San Diego, Monday, July 27, 2026, 12:23 (18 hours, 49 minutes ago)

https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v48/n14/emily-wilson/an-uncomplicated-man

Nolan’s Odyssey lacks many of the elements that make the poem great. It has nothing convincing to say about time, memory, history, war, or about the relationship between one warrior’s glorious return and the lives of his family, adversaries, comrades, friends and neighbours. It lacks psychological, emotional, political and ethical depth. Its narrative structure is gimmicky. The writing is abysmal. None of the characters has convincing motivation for their actions or words. There are no sex scenes, and all the food looks horrible.

What does she know about it?

by OGerry @, Maine wilderness, Monday, July 27, 2026, 17:19 (13 hours, 53 minutes ago) @ Jay

Honestly, I like her translations fine, so I'm apt to believe whatever she tells me.

The food probably was horrible?

by nedhead @, Monday, July 27, 2026, 14:46 (16 hours, 26 minutes ago) @ Jay

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Every time I watch a King’s feast in in a medieval film

by San Pedro @, Monday, July 27, 2026, 16:15 (14 hours, 57 minutes ago) @ nedhead

I think about what the food tasted like. Was it universally horrible or could they pull off a solid rotisserie chicken? It probably was awful.

Roman cities had a ton of tavernas

by beattherush, Chicago, Monday, July 27, 2026, 16:47 (14 hours, 25 minutes ago) @ San Pedro

You figure competition would have gotten the food standard to someplace edible, mostly.

"Tasting History" can be pretty entertaining.

by ReginaldVelJohnson @, Monday, July 27, 2026, 16:25 (14 hours, 47 minutes ago) @ San Pedro

Tasting History

My take is that it definitely got better over time, but if you were rich it still was probably decent.

Very cool. There’s a recent episode on the Odyssey.

by San Pedro @, Monday, July 27, 2026, 16:43 (14 hours, 29 minutes ago) @ ReginaldVelJohnson
edited by San Pedro, Monday, July 27, 2026, 17:21

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All I can think of is that

by Mark, Monday, July 27, 2026, 16:28 (14 hours, 44 minutes ago) @ ReginaldVelJohnson

THIS (see below) probably made a big difference:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spice_trade

Agreed. Must have been huge.

by San Pedro @, Monday, July 27, 2026, 16:41 (14 hours, 31 minutes ago) @ Mark

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It’s odd given that her translation inspired Nolan

by Dallasdomer, Monday, July 27, 2026, 14:46 (16 hours, 26 minutes ago) @ Jay

It’s also true that her initial remarks were more favorable, broadly speaking. This Guardian piece is much more negative.

Yeah this is just dumb.

by KelleyCook @, Monday, July 27, 2026, 14:40 (16 hours, 32 minutes ago) @ Jay

I for one thought the movie was spectacular. Condensing a twenty year epic into a 3 hour movie is going to leave stuff on the floor; but to complain about lack of sex and food? Though to be honest, I wasn't planning on reading Emily's translation before and with that quip I certainly am not about to now. But I will soon be re-reading a 20th century translation. Somethings I clearly misremembered from forty years ago.

I put this movie as Nolan's second best behind Interstellar. That's really high praise for me as I love his movies.

There are valid criticisms. That’s not one of them.

by beattherush, Chicago, Monday, July 27, 2026, 14:05 (17 hours, 7 minutes ago) @ Jay

Personally, I thought Nolan was going for different targets: the power of myth in a pre-technological age, the value of a light in the darkness, the capriciousness of the gods, and paying for one’s sins even when committed in the service of duty.

Her criticisms are about as valid as those from the right before they even saw the movie.

I mean, that whole paragraph is wrong on its face

by HullieAndMikes, Yelling at Sam Cane, Dunedin, Monday, July 27, 2026, 13:50 (17 hours, 22 minutes ago) @ Jay
edited by HullieAndMikes, Monday, July 27, 2026, 13:56

Bizarre Janus-face to the derangement coming in the other direction.

EDIT: She can't possibly be that ignorant not to know what the source material for the ending was, if she wasn't too busy making LOTR quips.

Very interesting stuff. Also, meh...

by HCE, Monday, July 27, 2026, 13:33 (17 hours, 39 minutes ago) @ Jay

For all of the lucid, expert opinion and worthy critiques on offer here--and there are more than a few--Wilson's main thesis amounts to "the poem is better." Fair enough; also, no shit, Dr. Wilson.

IMHO, "the book is better" criticism is certainly tempting--I'm guilty of it myself, sometimes right in this forum--but harping so much on details changed or scenes omitted is both tedious and beside the point of adaptation. It's one reason why literary specialists make lousy film critics. (Would anyone like to hear my complaints about John Huston's muddled presentation of Irish nationalist politics in his adaptation of The Dead? Yeah, I didn't think so...)

I was imagining the film in the hands of other directors

by Jay, San Diego, Monday, July 27, 2026, 13:41 (17 hours, 31 minutes ago) @ HCE
edited by Jay, Monday, July 27, 2026, 13:44

and how much better it would have been.

It's been boiled down to < 3 hours of material.

by KGB, Belly o. the Beast, Monday, July 27, 2026, 13:38 (17 hours, 34 minutes ago) @ HCE

The critique would have more merit if the auteur had turned this into a series of 8, 12, or whatever number of hours worth of episodes (something I have zero doubt will happen within the next 5-ish years). It's nearly impossible to have realistic expectations about aligning with and fully encompassing the original source.

Saw it opening night and enjoyed enough that I'm going back to see on 70mm this evening. But YMMV, certainly.

That's pretty much my view.

by oviedoirish @, Oviedo, Florida, Monday, July 27, 2026, 13:46 (17 hours, 25 minutes ago) @ KGB

I'm not very knowledgable of the actual poem, which probably helped me enjoy the movie more. And I agree that Nolan had to change things or leave things out for a three hour film. I also think that he adapted it for modern audiences, too. But I still loved it and want to see it again.

FWIW, there's stuff in the poem that no one needs

by HCE, Monday, July 27, 2026, 13:46 (17 hours, 26 minutes ago) @ KGB

The Odyssey might well be the greatest story ever told, but some of it is actually pretty boring. Nolan's film, at least, while far less profound than its source material, is never that.

Also, some of her complaints, like how Odysseus doesn't sleep with Circe, are pretty silly. Seriously, who cares?

Wasn't it implied that he did? It just wasn't shown.

by oviedoirish @, Oviedo, Florida, Monday, July 27, 2026, 13:48 (17 hours, 24 minutes ago) @ HCE

He was living with her for seven years! That was my take anyway. But I don't care either.

FYI, that was Calypso, not Circe

by HCE, Monday, July 27, 2026, 13:54 (17 hours, 18 minutes ago) @ oviedoirish

In the poem, he spends a year sleeping with Circe, post-pig incident, and then seven years sleeping with Calypso. In the movie, he leaves Circe without further incident but probably sleeps with Calypso off-screen.

But, again, meh.

I was trying to figure out why he left Calypso

by beattherush, Chicago, Monday, July 27, 2026, 16:06 (15 hours, 6 minutes ago) @ HCE

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Oh the horror! To be marooned with a servile Charlize Theron

by KelleyCook @, Monday, July 27, 2026, 16:17 (14 hours, 55 minutes ago) @ beattherush

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Heh.

by KGB, Belly o. the Beast, Monday, July 27, 2026, 18:55 (12 hours, 16 minutes ago) @ KelleyCook

Not a student of the source material, but Nolan probably cast that part a bit too attractive to make his desire to bounce entirely believable.

Oh yeah, I mixed them up.

by oviedoirish @, Oviedo, Florida, Monday, July 27, 2026, 14:25 (16 hours, 47 minutes ago) @ HCE

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After seeing the movie

by HullieAndMikes, Yelling at Sam Cane, Dunedin, Monday, July 27, 2026, 13:52 (17 hours, 20 minutes ago) @ oviedoirish

and having the algorithm force-feed me posts, we are at a society-wide nadir in being able to read between the lines and make connections between obvious things being shown to us. Functional illiteracy all the way down, coupled with engagement baiting.

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