FWIW, ND is now ranked #4 in both CBB polls this week

by hobbs, San Diego, CA, Monday, March 07, 2011, 10:58 (5531 days ago)
edited by hobbs, Monday, March 07, 2011, 11:15

AP & Coaches.

I have to believe that if they can win two games this week and reach the BET finals (ND secured a double bye) they'll stand a good chance of being a #1 seed.

The question would then be would you rather be lowest seeded #1 and get sent west to Anaheim (OSU would be the #1 overall seed and claim the midwest). Or would you rather be the highest #2 seed and get sent East to Newark and possibly face the lowest seeded #1 (Pitt?).

I might opt for being a two seed and playing Pitt in region.

On a related note championship week is always good viewing as its sudden death for many teams and that leads to a lot of dramatic endings.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/rankings

Whatever happens from here forward...

by KGB, Belly o. the Beast, Monday, March 07, 2011, 12:08 (5531 days ago) @ hobbs

...this has been a wonderful regular season and makes for a great story, one that should bear fruit for Brey and ND on the recruiting front for the next several years. We'll probably never make much of a dent with the kids who have the NBA on the brainpan or those in Sonny Vaccaro's pocket, but there's a layer of prospects just underneath the elite group who will relish playing at this level for 3 or 4 years and who still possess a great deal of talent. Add a tangible plan for a practice facility upgrade to the positive results (and press) associated with this season, and ND could begin to seriously challenge the sort of programs we've previously taken a backseat to in recruiting on a regular basis.

It would be great to see this team get the validation of a 1-seed, but the fact that we are even in the conversation right now is mindblowing to me and must be quite rewarding to everyone involved. I'm all for whatever offers us the best draw to advance deep into the NCAAs, and that amounts to a crapshoot at this stage.

Agree on #1 vs. #2

by CW (Rakes) @, Harlan County, Monday, March 07, 2011, 13:27 (5531 days ago) @ KGB

I'd rather you let me pick who we play in the second round versus whether we're a number one or two seed. A lot of projections today has us a one seed, but playing some combination of Tennessee, Missouri or Utah State in the first round. No thanks. I'd much rather be a 7/10 and facing some ACC or Big Ten team than a one seed with those teams.

My main two goals are to get to Chicago (seems like mission accomplished) and avoid Ohio State (and probably Kansas) for as long as possible

I'm all for hurrahs on the regular season at this point

by Jay, San Diego, Monday, March 07, 2011, 12:13 (5531 days ago) @ KGB

But what happens if we crap out in the first or second round, like we always have under Brey? I'm not sure the stellar regular season will amount to much at that point. In fact, it may become a millstone. Brey will have had his finest season on record, only to end in the same ignominious way.

I don't think that would bother me all that much.

by Kevin @, Monday, March 07, 2011, 17:20 (5531 days ago) @ Jay

I enjoy the tournament, but I don't think its champion is necessarily the best team in basketball. If ND goes in with 26/27/28 wins over the course of a long season, then loses a second-round game to a decent team on a hot streak, I'd still consider that an excellent, overachieving season.

It would be an amplified microcosm of his entire tenure.

by KGB, Belly o. the Beast, Monday, March 07, 2011, 12:27 (5531 days ago) @ Jay

Brey's regular season accomplishments have already generated plenty of grief for him, although I would take issue with your comment about how his teams "always crap out" in the NCAAs. Throughout his time here, I believe that ND has performed pretty close to seed, maybe a game or two below. Unfortunately, they've never had that season when they seriously outperformed expectations in March to offset the disappointments.

I realize it's the nature of the beast, but so much of the anticipation among fans is tied up in NCAA performance that it borders on the "Who gives a shit about the regular season?" attitude of the NBA. No one would contest that the enjoyment or positive strides of an 11-1 season on the football field this fall would be undone by a BCS bowl loss, but the equation on the basketball side seems to be different. And although I understand the sentiment, I'm not sure it's entirely fair, either.

serious question

by Jay, San Diego, Monday, March 07, 2011, 19:12 (5531 days ago) @ KGB

WTF is an "amplified microcosm"?

Is that bigger or smaller than a miniature enlargement?

Well, you see, Jay...

by KGB, Belly o. the Beast, Monday, March 07, 2011, 19:40 (5531 days ago) @ Jay

Yeah, I just made that up. That's how I roll.

Your reply is a miniaturized macroverse

by Dylan, Monday, March 07, 2011, 20:12 (5531 days ago) @ KGB

inverted

Agree.

by Kevin @, Monday, March 07, 2011, 17:22 (5531 days ago) @ KGB
edited by Kevin, Monday, March 07, 2011, 17:25

This is why I don't like conference tournaments. I think the Big Ten guys actually had it right, before they added a tournament. And unlike the "Rose Bowl is the ultimate goal" mentality we make fun of, winning the Big Ten regular season title was a lofty goal. Winning a Big Ten/Big East/ACC title, over a 30-game season, is an accomplishment a single tourney loss can't undo. I feel the same about this ND season.

okay, you made me look it up

by Jay, San Diego, Monday, March 07, 2011, 12:58 (5531 days ago) @ KGB

2010: #6 ND loses to #11 Old Dominion, first round.

2009: missed tourney entirely

2008: #5 ND beats #12 George Mason, loses by 20 points to #4 Washington State in the second round.

2007: #6 ND loses to #11 Winthrop, first round

2006: miss

2005: miss

2004: miss

2003: #5 ND beats #12 UW-Milwaukee, beats #4 Illinois, loses to #1 Arizona in the sweet 16

2002: #8 ND beats #9 UNC-Charlotte, loses to #1 Duke in the second round

2001: #6 ND beats #11 Xavier, loses to #3 Ole Miss in second round

----------

That's 10 seasons:

Negatives:
* 4 times missing the tournament entirely
* 2 times losing to a lower seed

Neutral (I'm being generous with a Neutral on a couple of these):
* 4 times losing to a higher seed
* 4 times beating a lower seed

Positive:
* beating #4 Ilinois as a #5 seed

Whoop dee do.

Tags:
hoops

The fact that we've never been higher than a 5-seed...

by KGB, Belly o. the Beast, Monday, March 07, 2011, 13:53 (5531 days ago) @ Jay
edited by KGB, Monday, March 07, 2011, 14:03

...supports what bk said about our general expectations for the basketball program as a fanbase compared to those of the committee (and probably the basketball-watching public-at-large, too). I suppose that Brey can be criticized for not building this thing faster or higher than he has, but there's nothing so out of line about our NCAA performance over the past decade other than the fact that we haven't qualified for the tournament often enough.

Goodness.....

by bk @, Close enough, Monday, March 07, 2011, 13:20 (5531 days ago) @ Jay

Can we enjoy this season a bit before we go all "ND Fan" on the basketball team?

If we crap out in the first or second round after getting a 1 or 2 seed, my disappointment will come primarily from the squandered opportunity to take a big step as a program. We've gotten a ton of positive press and exposure out of this team's run. But for it to mean much in the grand scheme of things, we'll need to prove a little bit in the tourney.

The other thing I'd caution us about is acting like Purdue football fans. We're not a top-16 basketball program and haven't been for a long time. I'm not even sure we were that in the 80's, but we certainly were nothing close to it in the 90's. While what Brey has accomplished at ND isn't unprecedented in the school's history, it is certainly unprecedented in the conference environment we now play in. We shouldn't assume that because we did it in the 70's that we can (easily) do it again now. Even if we underperform in the tournament, bringing this team to a 1 or 2 seed shows continued (if slow) improvement of the program. Putting Brey on the hotseat would make him a victim of his own (regular season) success and us like fans that don't understand our basketball program's place in the current college-basketball landscape.

"acting like Purdue football fans"

by hobbs, San Diego, CA, Monday, March 07, 2011, 14:15 (5531 days ago) @ bk

I'm not sure how many people know or realize this but ND basketball is a all time top 13 program.

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:uVolMALQagYJ:assets.espn.go.com/photo/200...

I don't think Purdue rates anywhere near as high on the football scale.

We're pretty far off that right now.....

by bk @, Close enough, Monday, March 07, 2011, 14:18 (5531 days ago) @ hobbs

Especially if you look at our program from the start of the NCAA tournament's prominence forward.

Although I think we're closer than we have been in 20 years or so.

I totally agree with your second paragraph

by Jay, San Diego, Monday, March 07, 2011, 13:24 (5531 days ago) @ bk

That's exactly where I'm coming from. This is a big opportunity to bust through a ceiling.

I don't think it's "going all Purdue fan" to expect this specific ND team to do well in the postseason.

Nice drum.

by Slainte Joe @, Raleigh, Monday, March 07, 2011, 13:54 (5531 days ago) @ Jay

[image]

spectacular, spectacular

by Jay, San Diego, Monday, March 07, 2011, 14:03 (5531 days ago) @ Slainte Joe

- No text -

Far better teams than this ND one have lost in the 2nd round

by CW (Rakes) @, Harlan County, Monday, March 07, 2011, 13:37 (5531 days ago) @ Jay

There are a hundred different wacky things that can happen a week from Sunday that could knock this team out before the Sweet Sixteen, but none of them will diminish that this is a fantastic basketball team that's been a joy to watch all year. Will it be disappointing? Absolutely, and maybe it would say something about Brey's teams in the NCAAs, but it could just be the fact that when you play a single elimination tournament weird stuff happens. And I find it very, very unlikely that we'll be more than a 2 or 3 point favorite in that second round game.

I'm just preparing for next Sunday, when in addition to being very sad that I don't get to see this team play any more, that I'm going to have to deal with a bunch of fans who just started paying attention to the season tell me that this team was a failure just because they didn't make the Elite Eight.

on the other hand, no team has been seeded as high

by Jay, San Diego, Monday, March 07, 2011, 13:52 (5531 days ago) @ CW (Rakes)

as this one will be. And the expectations for this team are higher than any in Brey's tenure (regardless of how abstractly "good" they are in comparison to previous Brey teams).

All of this is sausage at this point anyway -- just wondering what the reaction will be if we get bounced too early yet again. I think I can guess.

It seems like the diehard fans give Brey more rope.

by San Pedro @, More than 100 feet from Bob Davies, Monday, March 07, 2011, 14:00 (5531 days ago) @ Jay

Most casual fans seem to be of the "he can't get it done in the tourney" variety.

They remember the John MacLeod years

by hobbs, San Diego, CA, Monday, March 07, 2011, 14:09 (5531 days ago) @ San Pedro
edited by hobbs, Monday, March 07, 2011, 14:38

when the program didn't sniff the tournament in the 90s. That said Mac certainly wasn't helped by the conference situation at a time where being in a conference meant everything in recruiting.

Personally while I've been frustrated at times with Brey I do recognize that the man is a hell of a coach, especially offensively. Part of the reason why I cut him slack is because I'm not sure that he is either willing or able to recruit some players who would make ND a more complete team. My hope is that this run opens some doors and that Brey can now land a player or two in future years who could make his usual team build more complete.

Being a season-ticket holder definitely colors my view....

by bk @, Close enough, Monday, March 07, 2011, 14:04 (5531 days ago) @ San Pedro

I've said it here before: most of my enjoyment from this program comes from seeing them in person beat quality Big East teams. And I get to follow them closely, watching the young guys get early playing time against crappy teams in the OOC games and trying to see how the holes left by graduated players will be filled.

So I get a little less upset by our poor tourney showings. Don't get me wrong, I'm pretty pissed during the games and shortly after and pretty disappointed for the balance of the tournament, but I move on pretty quickly and tend to judge the team (and Brey) more on their regular season accomplishments.

Good points.

by San Pedro @, More than 100 feet from Bob Davies, Monday, March 07, 2011, 13:45 (5531 days ago) @ CW (Rakes)

You can't judge a coach based on a single year performance in the NCAAs. Hell, Boeheim used to catch a lot of heat for not winning big in the tournament.

ND has a hell of a team, but they are vulnerable due to lack of depth and athleticism on the perimeter. I won't think anything less of this team or Brey's masterful job in the regular season if they bow out in the round of 16 and don't play to seed.

But it will be fair to question Brey's ability to field a team that can win in the NCAA tournament if we get bounced early again. It's the most important part of the season and I'd rather our coach outperform Marty Schottenheimer in this regard.

Amen. Amen I say to you.

by bk @, Close enough, Monday, March 07, 2011, 13:38 (5531 days ago) @ CW (Rakes)

- No text -

And I agree with yours.....

by bk @, Close enough, Monday, March 07, 2011, 13:34 (5531 days ago) @ Jay

Expecting the team to make the Sweet 16 is reasonable if we're a 1 or 2 seed. And it doesn't make us Purdue fans.

Match-ups may still come into play in the 2nd game, but most teams deserving of a 1 or 2 should be able to make it to the second weekend. After that, it's a lot about match-ups. For example, if, as a 2 seed, we lose to a 3-seed UNC team in the Sweet 16, a team that is playing some very good basketball right now, should we be disappointed in the season?

Having said that, this season was a step forward even if we don't make the Sweet 16. We've only ever had a 1-seed once in the program's history. And we're reasonably in the discussion for one right now. That's still progress. It could be limited by a poor tourney performance and maybe even wiped out altogether with a first-round loss. But for now, it's marked progress.

The last two 11/6 games were some poor seeding/bad draws

by CW (Rakes) @, Harlan County, Monday, March 07, 2011, 13:16 (5531 days ago) @ Jay

Especially in 2007, there's no way we should have been a 6 seed. If Russell Carter's 3 goes down at the buzzer against Georgetown, we would have been a 4 at worst. And then we got paired with Winthrop, who was dubbed the trendy tournament team the entire season. It was a rough go.

And last year's team was over-seeded as a 6. I think all of the projections had us in the 8/9 range. That team was 17-10 (6-8 BE) before going on the run. And KenPom actually had Old Dominion as a favorite in that first round game.

2007 was a total freakin' hose job.

by KGB, Belly o. the Beast, Monday, March 07, 2011, 14:00 (5531 days ago) @ CW (Rakes)

Not merely because of the seed or the opponent but also because the committee sent us all the way across the damn country to play the opening rounds in Spokane (IIRC). I don't expect that we should have those guys handing us anything on a silver platter, but the combination of things was a pretty raw deal.

What frustrated me most about the first-round loss last season was that the committee finally gave ND a friendly seed, and we pissed the whole thing away with our worst performance in over a month. And that had nothing to do with shit that Mike Brey did or did not do back in 2002 or 2005 or whenever else.

Geez. And people wonder why some ND fans are wary.

by Greg, seemingly ranch, Monday, March 07, 2011, 13:14 (5531 days ago) @ Jay
edited by Greg, Monday, March 07, 2011, 13:21

It's the run of miss, miss, miss, lose the 6/11 game, win but get blown out in round 2, miss, lose the 6/11 game.

Expectations were pretty reasonable after the Sweet 16 run -- always make the tournament, regularly make the second round, make the Sweet 16 as often as not, and everything else is gravy. Had Brey met those, I'm sure that many fans would have ratcheted up the expectations but at the time nobody was saying "we're going to be champs in 2 years." It was just nice to be a top-20 team that we thought would regularly perform like one. Then we missed 3 and lost the 6/11 game. The 20-point loss barely registered as a shock, because it almost seemed expected. And then missed again. And then last year.

So why are people placing so much of their expectations for this year on the NCAAs? Because, as you can see, we've been down the road of "nice regular season run/NCAA debacle" 3 out of the last 7 years. And those were the good years during that span.

Kind of funny.

by KGB, Belly o. the Beast, Monday, March 07, 2011, 14:43 (5531 days ago) @ Greg
edited by KGB, Monday, March 07, 2011, 15:10

ND was within an eyelash of winning the Duke and Ole Miss games, which would have placed the Irish in the Sweet 16 in each of Brey's first three years. If you'd have told me at the end of that third season that we would eventually be another 7 years down the road, that the team had not made it back to the regionals since then and that they'd missed the NCAAs completely more often than they'd made it, I never would have believed that Brey would still be employed as our head coach. And yet here we are.

We can talk about the small sample size of the history involved or whatever else, but I come to two conclusions about the current group:

1. They are the best-equipped team Brey has had during his tenure to perform well in the NCAAs.

2. They are going to have the most favorable NCAA placement of any Irish team in Brey's time.

People can fuss over Tennessee, Missouri, Utah State or whoever else, but in any other year, we would be playing an opponent of that approximate caliber on Thursday or Friday. Having the opportunity to open the tourney against a team that we should pound the crap out of will be a significant advantage, allowing the guys to work through whatever early-tournament jitters they might have in a game that should not be all that competitive. That the top two seeds often advance to the regionals obviously has a lot to do with the fact that they spent the previous four months proving themselves to be the best teams in the country, but the friendly brackets certainly don't hurt, either.

how many programs match those expectations?

by HumanRobot @, Cybertron, Monday, March 07, 2011, 13:23 (5531 days ago) @ Greg

I ask because I honestly don't know. I'd speculate that "always make the tournament, regularly make the second round, make the Sweet 16 as often as not" is actually quite a bit rarer air than one would think on the surface. I'll have to take a look later.

Also, I'm in no way defending Brey's Year 4 and beyond performance. I'm only trying to point out that what might seem like modest expectations on the surface might be a harder target to hit than you'd think.

Yeah, I was a bit over the top in the way I wrote that.

by Greg, seemingly ranch, Monday, March 07, 2011, 13:27 (5531 days ago) @ HumanRobot

I recall the conversation being something more like "make the NCAAs 8 of 10 years, make the 2nd round 7 of 8 years, make the Sweet 16 4 of 7 years, make the elite 8 1 of 4 years" and then gravy. Everybody knows that a team can get upset in the second round (or the first round if you're a bubble team) and everybody knows that once you get to the round of 8 you're looking at luck/momentum as much as you are who has the best team. And you have to build in not making the NCAAs because it is always a possibility--injuries, graduation, whatever--and nobody makes it all the time.

But I do think that some solid expectations for what a 10-year run would look like would not have included the first 7 featuring 4 misses, 2 first-round losses, and a 2nd-round blowout.

I don't know if anybody "always" makes it, but I do think there are teams that regularly perform well. And I don't think that we've been one of those. So I'm wary, but excited, because it'd be great to have a reason to tune in all of winter/spring 2011-12.

Put it to the test. One Elite 8 every four years?

by LaFortune Teller ⌂ @, South Bend, Monday, March 07, 2011, 14:04 (5531 days ago) @ Greg

36 different teams have made the Elite 8 in the last eight seasons. 16 teams made it at least twice in the last eight years; that is, met or exceeded that expectation (and I guarantee they've all had more top-4 seeds than ND in the same span):

4 - Kansas
4 - Michigan State
4 - North Carolina
4 - Connecticut
3 - Kentucky
3 - Louisville
3 - Memphis
3 - Texas
3 - UCLA
2 - Arizona
2 - Duke
2 - Florida
2 - Oklahoma
2 - Villanova
2 - West Virginia
2 - Xavier

Notables that have not met this standard:
1 - Georgetown
1 - Ohio State
1 - Pittsburgh
1 - Syracuse

I'm sorry you did that work.

by Greg, seemingly ranch, Monday, March 07, 2011, 14:08 (5531 days ago) @ LaFortune Teller

I was actually reducing down as I went -- because I'm a numbers moron. What I meant was that if we made the tournament 8 of 10 years, then we should make the second round in 7 of those 8, the Sweet Sixteen in 4 of the 7 in which we have an opportunity to do so, and the round of 8 in 1 of the 4 in which we have an opportunity to do so. That would mean just 1 Elite 8 in 10 years, to go with 4 Sweet Sixteens and 7 second round appearances on 8 total appearances. That's a pretty fair expectation for a program, I think.

You misunderstood.....

by bk @, Close enough, Monday, March 07, 2011, 14:06 (5531 days ago) @ LaFortune Teller

Consider the accomplishments over a ten-year period:

8 NCAA appearances
7 second-round appearances (this may be a little high)
4 Sweet 16 appearances
1 Elite 8 appearance

This seems about right.....

by bk @, Close enough, Monday, March 07, 2011, 13:47 (5531 days ago) @ Greg

I'd love a program that could be more than this. But I think this is reasonable.

I don't want to be Purdue football fans

by Greg, seemingly ranch, Monday, March 07, 2011, 14:11 (5531 days ago) @ bk

I think we can set out some reasonable expectations that take into account both our history and our more recent history and that recognize the drawbacks/negatives we have in college hoops (cough*AAU*cough) and the positives, like getting a group of experienced smart players who can all handle the ball and shoot--a group like this year's. I don't want to over-pressure this year's team to make up for the ills of the past, so that's why I'll just say that a Sweet Sixteen run would be great validation for the program and anything beyond that is total gravy.

Coach K's

by HumanRobot @, Cybertron, Monday, March 07, 2011, 13:08 (5531 days ago) @ Jay

Positives
+won tourney as a 1 seed in 2001
+won tourney as a 1 seed in 2010

Neutral
=Lost in Sweet 16 as a 3 seed in 2003 to 2 seed Kansas
=Lost in Final 4 as a 1 seed in 2004 to 2 seed UConn


Negatives
-Lost in Sweet 16 as a 1 seed in 2002 to 5 seed Indiana
-Lost in Sweet 16 as a 1 seed in 2005 to 5 seed MSU
-Lost in Sweet 16 as a 1 seed in 2006 to 4 seed LSU
-Lost in first round as a 6 seed in 2007 to 11 seed VCU
-Lost in second round as a 2 seed in 2008 to 7 seed WVU
-Lost in Sweet 16 as a 2 seed in 2009 to 3 seed Villanova

Boy, that was an ugly stretch there prior to last season.

by KGB, Belly o. the Beast, Monday, March 07, 2011, 14:21 (5531 days ago) @ HumanRobot
edited by KGB, Monday, March 07, 2011, 14:50

I can only imagine how bad it would have been if the school in question would have been ND. The coach would have been fired over the internet a hundred times over, with literally thousands upon thousands of diplomas needlessly burned out of spite.

I know that I wanted to make those annual failures in March about Krzyzewski because I hate his stupid rat guts, but the unfortunate fact is that you have to be doing something right to accumulate that many high seeds in the first place. Weekly blowjobs from Dick Vitale will only take a team so far.

So this year will be the first time ND "should" reach S16.

by LaFortune Teller ⌂ @, South Bend, Monday, March 07, 2011, 13:02 (5531 days ago) @ Jay

I'm not thrilled with Brey's tournament record, but I'm not sure anything that happens this year can be attributed to a "pattern". It will either be the first time ND underplays as a top-4 seed, or it will be the first time ND plays to seed as a top-4 seed, or it will be the first time ND exceeds expectations as a top-4 seed.

As with football, I will wait until the season is complete

by Joe I @, Monday, March 07, 2011, 13:33 (5531 days ago) @ LaFortune Teller
edited by Joe I, Monday, March 07, 2011, 13:37

to give my final (mental) analysis. This team is performing better in March than it was in November. It is performing way beyond pre-season expectations. For that, I give Brey a ton of credit, and I'm really looking forward to what they can do over the next several weeks.

However, this is the first Brey team that I can recall who has improved throughout the season, as opposed to limping into the NCAAs. There may be another, but it's been rare. For me, comparing pre-season expectations with final post-season tournament results and ranking would be a better barometer of the team's performance over time than tournament seeding versus final result. For better or worse, post-season results matter more than the regular season, and ND has had very few shining moments this past decade. This year's team has been quite enjoyable to watch, and I hope/expect this year's final results will finally buck that trend.

It's not so much limping as stagnating....

by bk @, Close enough, Monday, March 07, 2011, 13:36 (5531 days ago) @ Joe I

Our teams are usually skilled and smart, but not necessarily talented. We also usually have a fair amount of experience. So we play particularly well at the beginning of the season, but don't have a lot of room for improvement.

Martin had a lot of growing to do. Scott did too, as he really wasn't a huge contributor until late last year. And I think the team as a whole had to get used to each other and what it was capable of doing. So we've had a lot of opportunity to grow this year.

That is a very good point.

by Joe I @, Monday, March 07, 2011, 13:38 (5531 days ago) @ bk

In the past, we've probably been as much a victim of beginning the year more seasoned than younger teams, and not been able to keep up with their improvement, particularly come tournament time. Nice to see it different this year.

Izzo might be the only coach that consistently plays

by LaFortune Teller ⌂ @, South Bend, Monday, March 07, 2011, 12:37 (5531 days ago) @ KGB

better than seed, I think. Has Brey been as good as, say, Mike Krzyzewski in terms of playing to seed in the last 10 years? Possible.

if you count the years he missed the tournament entirely

by Jay, San Diego, Monday, March 07, 2011, 12:40 (5531 days ago) @ LaFortune Teller

He's way below K in terms of expected performance, right?

I'm drawing a fine line here. Maybe too fine.

by LaFortune Teller ⌂ @, South Bend, Monday, March 07, 2011, 12:51 (5531 days ago) @ Jay

If we land a #1 or #2 seed and don't make it to the elite 8, we will have failed to play to our seed. Will it be a tournament failure? Does it fit a pattern of Mike Brey teams in terms of tournament success? Based on preseason expectations or tournament expectations?

Mike Krzyzewski teams sometimes make it to the Final Four. Based on seed (and probably preseason expectations), his teams "should" make it to the Final Four more often than they do. If we want to say that Brey teams don't play to preseason or midseason expectations as well as Krzyzewski teams, that's probably true. If we want to say that Brey teams play to tournament expectations as well as Krzyzewski teams based on seed, that might be true as well.

As for missing the tournament, its certainly a mark against Brey in general, but it isn't relevant to the point I'm trying to make.

I'd take #1 in the West in a heartbeat

by Spesh ⌂ @, Los Angeles, Monday, March 07, 2011, 11:19 (5531 days ago) @ hobbs

I live in Los Angeles, though. I'm a tad biased.

I'll definitely go to those

by Jay, San Diego, Monday, March 07, 2011, 11:33 (5531 days ago) @ Spesh

IIRC, we both went the last time ND played in Anaheim too. I remember seeing Darin Erstad at the bar beforehand.

Yeah, I was thinking of a possible quick drive/flight up

by hobbs, San Diego, CA, Monday, March 07, 2011, 11:27 (5531 days ago) @ Spesh

to catch a 1st round affair, myself.

Something to consider.

Even if they go West, ND will almost certainly be in Chicago

by Jeremy (WeIsND), Offices of Babip Pecota Vorp & Eckstein, Monday, March 07, 2011, 11:31 (5531 days ago) @ hobbs

For the 1st/2nd round games.

You're right on Chi being the likely 1st & 2nd round venue

by hobbs, San Diego, CA, Monday, March 07, 2011, 11:51 (5531 days ago) @ Jeremy (WeIsND)

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