might as well float this one out there
by Jay, San Diego, Saturday, February 14, 2009, 09:22 (6309 days ago)
edited by Jay, Saturday, February 14, 2009, 09:28
Since it's pretty much the main topic of conversation around the ND dinner table. A couple questions regarding the mindset of the fanbase in this winter of our discontent...
1. Did you want to fire Charlie Weis at any point during or after last season?
2. Were you content with the decision to retain him?
3. What % chance do you give him to turn in a good season this year?
4. What % chance do you give him to win a national championship?
5. Do you think the offseason changes are a positive development, and will they matter?
Responses
by Bruno95, Tuesday, February 17, 2009, 13:50 (6306 days ago) @ Jay
1. Did you want to fire Charlie Weis at any point during or after last season? Yes.2. Were you content with the decision to retain him? Yes.
3. What % chance do you give him to turn in a good season this year? 80%
4. What % chance do you give him to win a national championship? 20%
5. Do you think the offseason changes are a positive development, and will they matter? Yes and yes. If Hart does become the DL coach, he will have significantly upgraded across the board.
Answers
by Bingo
, Fort Wayne, IN, Sunday, February 15, 2009, 17:54 (6308 days ago) @ Jay
1.) Yes, a couple of times.
2.) Yes, and no. I love how Charlie recruits. He works his butt off and I appreciate it. Also I don't think 05 and 06 were flukes. In 05 we were a ligitamate NC contender. That being said looking back at the last two years it's clear that he has some coaching adjustments that he needs to do. If he learns from his mistakes I think he can be one hell of a coach. However I think that's about a 50/50 chance right now.
3.) 50/50. Really should be higher with the schedule and our talent coming back. Put me in the believe it when I see it camp.
4.) If he's back after next year, about %75.
5.) Mostly positive. Realistically though this is all about Charlie. Can he get the kids to play hard for him every week. Can he close out tight games. It will be fun to watch this year. One of the big problems I thought Charlie had last year was that he didn't put his foot on the throats of the opposition when they were down. He would try to return to the run game to burn clock, when realistically he should have gone for the juglar in my opinon.
Answers
by irishoutsider
, Sunday, February 15, 2009, 14:00 (6308 days ago) @ Jay
First, thanks for the invite.
1. There were more than a few times where I felt his termination was inevitable.
2. I am only content with the decision to retain him if it was also considered a formal warning. The reasons for retaining him are relevant. He's busting almost every single recruiting myth, and his greatest flaw (inexperience) was has always been known.
3. If good season is defined as any BCS berth, I would hope it was 90% with this schedule and the pieces in place
4. 5%, and I'm a pretty good seller at 5.
5. The offseason changes are signs of a few positive developments. 1, Weis is not settling for the current state of the program, this is an attempt at improvement. 2, he's not too proud to admit failure. 3, these are hires that I would like to think a more experienced college coach would make.
My answers
by scriptcomesfirst
, Sunday, February 15, 2009, 13:32 (6308 days ago) @ Jay
1. Yes, finally after Syracuse, I was on board. But saddened.
2. Understanding the ultimatum, and the fact that there wasn't a coach who I felt was a slam dunk for improvement, I was cool with the retention.
3. 80%
4. 15% because of schedule, maturity in key slots, talent infusion
5. Yes, and I believe they will matter. Verducci... I like an edge to my OL coaches. He seems to have it, and I liked his comments about what his lines would bring to the table. Alford... whatever "it" is, this guy seems to have it. Personality-wise, an upgrade over Haywood IMO. Hart... upgrade, upgrade, upgrade. Charlie as OC (in the booth likely)... that's where he made his bones, that's where I place my money. The most significant changes though are the maturity of existing talent, the infusion of "college ready" new talents (I'm grouping the redshirts here), and more direct lines from philosophy to play-calling (CW on offense, and Tenuta on defense). I believe removing a level of filtering here will pay dividends.
My two bits
by Pete, Sunday, February 15, 2009, 11:34 (6308 days ago) @ Jay
1. Did you want to fire Charlie Weis at any point during or after last season?
- Yep. Pretty much from the Syracuse game until it became clear he wouldn't be fired.
2. Were you content with the decision to retain him?
- Disappointed, but I could understand the rationale. I didn't want to see Weis go just for the sake of seeing him go, I only wanted him fire if we could upgrade with the next hire, and I don't think another year with Weis at the helm will kill the program.
3. What % chance do you give him to turn in a good season this year?
- Nearly all evidence points to it yet again coming in below reasonable expectations based on the talent and schedule, but the eternal, occasionally desperate, optimist in me puts it at about 60-70%
4. What % chance do you give him to win a national championship?
- This year? 5%. Sometime ever in his Notre Dame career, however long that may be? 30%.
5. Do you think the offseason changes are a positive development, and will they matter?
- I think they could make a huge difference, or none at all. If you really believe that the struggles of the Weis Era stem from an inability to dominate a game in the trenches on both sides of the field, and Weis' inability to commit to a reliable and consistent running game, then he's made all the necessary changes as far as the staff is concerned. Now it's just a matter of seeing if the staff can do what they were brought here to do. I'm hoping for the best.
.02
by River, Hell of the Upside Down Sinners, Sunday, February 15, 2009, 08:58 (6308 days ago) @ Jay
1. Did you want to fire Charlie Weis at any point during or after last season?
Yes. As Syracuse pulled to within 6 and I just "knew" ND was gonna lose. As he was being interviewed after the game I screamed at the television, "Do the right thing and resign right now!!!"
2. Were you content with the decision to retain him?
Content may not be the word, but I felt that at season's end if he was given an ultimatum and changes(staff) were made and we won the Bowl Game I was OK with it.
3. What % chance do you give him to turn in a good season this year?
50/50....this should be a 10 Win season, but...Show me!!!
4. What % chance do you give him to win a national championship?
I am with Busco...3%
5. Do you think the offseason changes are a positive development, and will they matter?
Absolutely. I have been skeptical of the timing, but the guys hired are solid hires IMO and the guys moving on are the ones I wanted gone. IMO it starts in the trenches and we got new coaches with solid resumes. If they can do the job we have the skill set beyond the trenches to go to a BCS game.
OK, I'll play
by Busco21, Saturday, February 14, 2009, 20:44 (6309 days ago) @ Jay
1. Yes, after the SU game I wanted him fired. To see a team that much weaker than ND beat us killed me.
2. I think content might be the right word. If ND couldn't bring in an A list coach, I was 100% behind keeping CW. If ND had found a great hire waiting in the wings, I would have been 100% behind that guy. The poor bastard works his ass off, gets ND, and recruits like a sonofabitch. He's got more warts than everyone here put together, but at least he works his ass off.
3. It's hard for me to judge what a "good season" means. I've coached average teams that have caught every break known to man, and I've coached excellent teams that didn't catch a f&%*in' break. Like porno, I'll know it when I see it. My judgement of a good season is around 10-2. I don't care what the record ends up, I think I'll know by December of this year if CW has things going where we want them to go. For shits and giggles, I'll say 60%.
4. I've typed this one million times, but I'll type it again. The goal isn't to win a NC, it's to compete for a NC. Competing for a NC is what we all want. Winning one takes a shitload of luck and a shitload of great players. The SOB recruits like a madman, so I expect the future to look very good. If he fails, I'd sell my soul to get a chance to coach what he leaves behind. (um, they won't be calling me). So to answer the question: 2009: 3%. If he has a great season in 2009, the future....: 10%.
5. I like the changes so far. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If it is broke, fix it. Sometimes a new asst coach can come in, and whether or not he's better than the previous coach, the new blood leads to a different result.
Answers
by Mike (Max)
, Orlando, Saturday, February 14, 2009, 20:07 (6309 days ago) @ Jay
1. Did you want to fire Charlie Weis at any point during or after last season?
Only in the heat of passion.
2. Were you content with the decision to retain him?
Yes, assuming the decision included requiring him to make staff changes. It didn't seem like there were any home run candidates out there, anyway.
3. What % chance do you give him to turn in a good season this year?
50% chance of a BCS bid.
4. What % chance do you give him to win a national championship?
Minuscule from what we have seen to date, but I liked his offseason moves, and talented depth is starting to take hold, so I may have a different answer after this year.
5. Do you think the offseason changes are a positive development, and will they matter?
Yes, and, Lord, I hope so. I would rather roll the dice with some new coaches than another season of knowing what we have in OL and DL coaches, i.e. mediocrity or worse. IMO Charlie's hires since his initial hires, which he largely had to make while still working for the Patriots full time (except Vaas), have been significant upgrades, so I'm optimistic about the new crop.
No, Yes, 75%, 10%, Yes and Yes.
by PMan
, The Banks of the Spokane River, Saturday, February 14, 2009, 16:19 (6309 days ago) @ Jay
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Answers
by Joe
, Saturday, February 14, 2009, 15:30 (6309 days ago) @ Jay
1. Did you want to fire Charlie Weis at any point during or after last season?
No -- but I didn't have the same expectations others did going into last season, either. I had figured on us being an 8-5 team last year, and this year being the year where Charlie got to show us whether or not he's capable of getting the job done. However, after the Syracuse game, I will admit that my confidence in this year slipped a bit.
2. Were you content with the decision to retain him?
Yes, partly because I think the doctrine of "what must be done eventually should be done now" is destructive when it comes to running a football program - aside from the fact that I'm not sure you can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that Charlie being fired must happen eventually. If we had had Meyer or Saban calling us and saying, "offer me the job, and I'll accept", then I would have been OK with it, but I don't think we were doing our program harm by keeping him another year.
3. What % chance do you give him to turn in a good season this year?
Defining good as 10+ wins, I would say 50%.
4. What % chance do you give him to win a national championship?
Next year, maybe 5%. If he gets through next year with a 10+ win season, I would say closer to 20% for his tenure.
5. Do you think the offseason changes are a positive development, and will they matter?
Yes, and I hope so. I'll leave the position coach critiques to those more knowledgeable than I, but the guys we've brought in seem to be a good mix of the high-energy good recruiters (Alford) and the old-school, gritty type coaches (Verducci and the new DL coach whose name escapes me).
I like bringing in Bryant Young, as it shows an appreciation of the history of our program. Moving Tenuta to DC is good, as I think Corwin is gone after this year if we're successful, and we're poised to keep Tenuta for a while if that happens.
Will they matter? I sincerely hope so. After struggling through Davie and Willingham, we have a coach who gets what Notre Dame is about, works tirelessly to improve the program, is a relentless recruiter, and does good work in the community. For all the talk of his arrogance, he has also seemed quite willing to take criticism and make changes when it was clear that changes needed to be made.
Of course, all this is secondary if the team doesn't win -- and we'll see whether or not Charlie is the guy based upon his teams play this year. If he doesn't win, he should not be retained. I would like to think he'd agree with me on that.
Yes, No, 50, 10, Positive and no.
by MadisonDomer, Saturday, February 14, 2009, 14:27 (6309 days ago) @ Jay
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My 2 pennies...
by Irish96, Saturday, February 14, 2009, 13:34 (6309 days ago) @ Jay
1. Yes. I was a supporter until that shit-show in Chestnut Hill. The Pitt game gave me some doubts, but the BC game sealed it. I wanted him gone.
2. I wasn't thrilled about retaining him, but the bowl game gave me some cause for hope.
3. I'd say we're 50-50 on having a good season (10 or more wins). On some days, I'm more optimistic and think it's a 60% chance.
4. Probably less than 1% for 2009. I still don't think we can beat USC. This year is probably our best chance to beat them as they'll be breaking in a new QB and replacing some big stars. As for down the line, it's too hard to gauge at this point. After 2005, I definitely thought we'd be in the NC hunt for years to come.
5. I'm pretty happy with the offseason moves. Crennell would have been a nice hire, but I like Hart a lot. I wish Grunhard's family would have been in ND's corner. I don't know enough about Verducci, but I'm optimistic.
Answers
by terribletr, Saturday, February 14, 2009, 12:47 (6309 days ago) @ Jay
1. Did you want to fire Charlie Weis at any point during or after last season? Yes
2. Were you content with the decision to retain him? Content would be strong, but I accept it.
3. What % chance do you give him to turn in a good season this year? Good chance with a very favorable schedule. He needs to beat MSU, give USC a game and win 10 regular season games.
4. What % chance do you give him to win a national championship?
Less than 1% in 2009.
5. Do you think the offseason changes are a positive development, and will they matter? I am dubiuous on Verducci, but like the other changes.
Does the NC question pertain to 2009, or ever?
by Sherman Oaks, California, Saturday, February 14, 2009, 13:05 (6309 days ago) @ terribletr
If "ever," my answer is 5%. If "2009," about 1%.
I was thinking "ever"
by Jay, San Diego, Saturday, February 14, 2009, 13:10 (6309 days ago) @ Sherman Oaks
When people talk about Weis ultimately being "successful," I think the only benchmark is winning a NC, right? But I certainly don't expect one this year.
My definition of "success"
by Sherman Oaks, California, Saturday, February 14, 2009, 15:14 (6309 days ago) @ Jay
is being a regular, serious contender for the NC. Winning the NC isn't necessarily the only definition of success, but invariably it's a byproduct of it.
My answers
by Geoff, Saturday, February 14, 2009, 12:13 (6309 days ago) @ Jay
Good questions. Here are my responses:
1) I joined the "Fire Weis" faction after the Pitt loss last season.
2) I was not happy that Weis was retained after the USC game. I especially didn't like how Swarbrick let him twist in the wind. It made ND look like a bunch of amateurs.
3) There's a 100% chance that Weis will have a "good" season. Easy schedule. Upperclassmen starters. Lots of talent and depth. The problem is that Weis must have a "great" season: one regular season loss and BCS win. But I doubt that will happen.
4) There's a 0% chance for a national championship. Too many factors must be reconciled: OL, LBs, running game, special teams returns, implementation of scheme, assistant coaches' learning curve, the players buying into Charlie Weis, and, of course, no injuries at key positions.
5) Weis is trying. I could never fault him for that. He recognizes his shortcomings as a coach, but it might be too late. His "Come to Jesus" moment should have occurred after his 2006 season. These new hires should help for next season. How much? That's the real question.
Yes, no, 45%, 5%, yes
by Sherman Oaks, California, Saturday, February 14, 2009, 11:29 (6309 days ago) @ Jay
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Answers
by Trosa, Saturday, February 14, 2009, 11:06 (6309 days ago) @ Jay
1. Absolutely not.
2. See above.
3. 80% (and for me, success this season is defined by making and being competitive in a BCS game)
4. This year? 5% Eventually? 100%
5. Yes, and yes, and more importantly, I think the wilderness years are nearing an end. With the depth and inexperience issues (mostly) corrected, I think ND fans can more reasonably expect to see Charlie's 05/06 teams, or better, on an annual basis.
My thoughts
by Slainte Joe
, Raleigh, Saturday, February 14, 2009, 09:59 (6309 days ago) @ Jay
1. Yes.
2. Resigned is probably more accurate.
3. In year 5, I define "good" as a BCS win, so I'd say 15-20%.
4. No more than 5%.
5. Most of the off-season changes were promising. However, the critical change was at OL, and I think it's unclear whether Verducci will have positive results. I'm skeptical.
Responses
by ReginaldVelJohnson
, Saturday, February 14, 2009, 09:55 (6309 days ago) @ Jay
1. Yes. I was at the Syracuse game. Walking home, after freezing my nads off, I had no doubt that I would like to see Weis canned. I had been on the "give him more time" bandwagon until that game.
2. I was fine with that, assuming it was done because a suitable replacement wasn't available. If they didn't even look, then that is a problem. However, I didn't necessarily like how it all played out, with the school very visibly letting the question linger for over a week.
3. I say good means at least 10-2 with a meaningful bowl win. I think it's somewhere around 30%.
4. 1%.
5. I think they are positive, but they may be too late. I think if this group of coaches, with the attitude they seem to have now, was around pre-2007, the development of this team may have been very different. I'm just not sure one full offseason is going to be enough to completely turn things around. I hope I'm wrong, though.