How much starting experience do top teams have?
by FunkDoctorSpock, Your Nightmares, B* tches, Wednesday, May 13, 2009, 06:54 (6224 days ago)
This is calculated in terms of total games started. I got all of the info off of Phil Steele's website:
2008 NOTRE DAME FIGHTING IRISH
QUARTERBACK: 11
OFFENSIVE LINE: 60
TOTAL OFFENSE: 127
TOTAL DEFENSE: 101
OVERALL: 228
2008 TOP FIVE TEAMS AVERAGE
QUARTERBACK: 16.8
OFFENSIVE LINE: 74.4
TOTAL OFFENSE: 139.4
TOTAL DEFENSE: 116.4
OVERALL: 255.8
2008 TOP FIFTEEN TEAMS AVERAGE
QUARTERBACK: 14.1
OFFENSIVE LINE: 72.5
TOTAL OFFENSE: 141.6
TOTAL DEFENSE: 122.6
OVERALL: 264.2
2009 NOTRE DAME FIGHTING IRISH (projected)
QUARTERBACK: 22
OFFENSIVE LINE: 100
TOTAL OFFENSE: 202
TOTAL DEFENSE: 124
OVERAL: 326
For some reason this stuff never encourages me
by MadisonDomer, Wednesday, May 13, 2009, 08:57 (6224 days ago) @ FunkDoctorSpock
I've never looked at starting game experience as the number one factor for success. I frequently see that the top teams consist of 4-5 guys on the OL that are first or second year starters but they're in their 4th or 5th year because the guy they replaced did the same thing as them.
I don't think we have that consistent rotation of top talent replacing top talent. I'd much rather have a 5th year with 0 starts than a sophomore with 12, and I think that's true at almost any position but especially true on the line.
I'd rather see total time spent over the course of their career in practice or in the weight room than see how many starts they have because the team didn't have anyone better. A backup on the line at Georgia or tOSU is typically better than the starters on the line we have over the past 2 years. While these numbers look fantastic and everything, I'm still not going to be encouraged until I know that the guys we have starting are there because they beat out a really deep roster to get it.
If it were possible, would it make sense
by Three D, Friday, May 15, 2009, 05:31 (6222 days ago) @ MadisonDomer
to break down players' meaningful minutes (i.e., non-special teams and non-mop up time -- with the note that special teams minutes are meaningful for the game, but not particularly telling of a player's ability at their offensive or defensive position) by weighting whether the minutes were played in front of or behind a more mature scholarship player on the depth chart.
Overly simplistic Examples:
Player A is a 4th (or 5th) year senior with 0 starts, lots of special teams time but has rarely seen the field in meaningful minutes. Player A hovered around 3rd or 2nd on the depth chart for 3 years. Is now penciled in as starter, although he has "paid his dues" behind experienced upperclassmen for 3 (or 4) years.
Player B is a 3rd year (junior) with 0 starts, lots of special teams time and has yet to see the field in meaningful minutes. Player B is now penciled in as starter and beat out a 4th year player.
Player C is a 3rd year (junior) with 8 starts. Player C remains penciled in as the starter, and his 8 starts came as a sophomore where he beat out 3rd and 4th year players.
Player D is a 3rd year (junior) with 12 starts, all of which came out of necessity in sophomore year due to injury of the expected starter during pre-season camp. Player D was not expected to be a starter as a sophomore. Player D is still penciled in as starter, although there are freshmen and sophomores behind him.
Given that all the players and all of their teammates are scholarship players and were deservedly recruited (i.e., not a special circumstances scholarship), which would you be most excited about? I think my order would go: C, B, A, D
By counting starts only, I'd have ended up with D as the best choice.
By counting age only, I'd have ended up with A.
By thinking that starts early on means something, I'd also have ended up with D.
Ideally, I think I'd want a whole bunch of As and Bs with the occasional C on my depth chart. And, this is all to say nothing of how any of the players graded while on the field (which very well could make D the best choice afterall).
I think of it like I think of recruiting rankings
by FunkDoctorSpock, Your Nightmares, B* tches, Wednesday, May 13, 2009, 09:35 (6224 days ago) @ MadisonDomer
In and of itself it doesnt exactly tell us a whole lot. Teams like Florida, Texas, LSU, USC, etc, can insert a stud upperclassmen with zero starts who is going to be better than a guy that has started at Purdue for four years.
Talent by itself isn't going to get you there.
Experience by itself isn't going to get you there.
Coaching by itself isn't going to get you there.
Etc.
I think it's most useful comparing teams against themselves
by MadisonDomer, Wednesday, May 13, 2009, 12:17 (6224 days ago) @ FunkDoctorSpock
Based on your data we'll look much better than we did last year.
of course...we had better look much better because last year we looked awful. I don't think it's very useful to compare us to the top 5 teams.
If we have the raw talent and experience level...
by BPH, San Diego, Wednesday, May 13, 2009, 12:55 (6223 days ago) @ MadisonDomer
of a top-five team (which we really do based on recruiting rankings and returning starts), then I think it is useful to compare us to top-five teams (or at least top 10). That sets the bar for expected performance. Regardless of how we did last year, based on talent and experience we should be an elite team. Thus, if we aren't, then it's a coaching failure and Weis needs to be held accountable.
I agree
by MadisonDomer, Thursday, May 14, 2009, 08:56 (6223 days ago) @ BPH
Although I think this is further evidence of failure if we don't measure up this year, it doesn't give me any hope that we will measure up this year.
I almost posted the exact same thing but with the conclusion, we'll have the top 5 talent and top 5 experience and end up top 20 since we have a 2nd tier coach.
I thought that post was a bit too caustic though so I just focused on why I'm going to keep having low expectations for this year. Not because I think we have any excuses but because I think that's where we'll end up, no matter what all of the experience stats or recruiting rankings show. I never saw a future top 3 team on the field last year and certainly not at the Blue-Gold game. I'm going off what my eyes have seen moreso than what the paper says.
Then we'll have a new coach this time next year.
by FunkDoctorSpock, Your Nightmares, B* tches, Thursday, May 14, 2009, 10:26 (6223 days ago) @ MadisonDomer
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For top 20?
by MadisonDomer, Thursday, May 14, 2009, 13:22 (6222 days ago) @ FunkDoctorSpock
I doubt it.
Misread your post.
by FunkDoctorSpock, Your Nightmares, B* tches, Thursday, May 14, 2009, 13:28 (6222 days ago) @ MadisonDomer
Yes, for Top 20 probably not.
Well then, we should look at lot like the 2005-2006 teams.
by FunkDoctorSpock, Your Nightmares, B* tches, Wednesday, May 13, 2009, 12:25 (6224 days ago) @ MadisonDomer
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