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Coaching carousel updates

by BPH, San Diego, Tuesday, December 05, 2017, 10:29

-- Taggart has met with FSU and has likely been offered the job. He hasn't accepted yet, but it looks like it's just a matter of time. Haven't read this anywhere, but Sumlin sure does seem like a natural fit for the Ducks.

-- Fulmer is meeting with Georgia defensive coordinator Mel Tucker for the second time today, and two other D-coordinators are on the list of five or so finalists along with Morris and Miles.

-- UCF hired Josh Heupel from Missouri, and he brought along Randy Shannon as his DC.

-- Rice hired Stanford OC Mike Bloomgren, which means we can finally look forward to the Cardinal sliding back to mediocrity (no, not really).

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Appears Jeremy Pruitt to Rocky Top.

by Chris @, Raleigh, NC, Wednesday, December 06, 2017, 20:22 @ BPH

[ No text ]

---
"F--- everyone who isn't us."
#Team128

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Is it just me or are the contract lengths absurd?

by NDTex ⌂ @, Dallas, TX, Wednesday, December 06, 2017, 12:13 @ BPH

Perhaps my memory is faulty, but I seem to remember something like a 5 year deal being viewed as an incredible length for a coach. 3-4 years seemed to be the norm.

It seems like 6-7 year deals are getting thrown around like they are going out of style and then you have the Aggies doing an insane decade-long, fully guaranteed contract.

Is this the new normal now? Because if so, it reeks of a bubble just waiting to burst in a hurry.

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Her Loyal Sons | Twitter

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I prefer a 5-year deal

by Greg, sittin on the dock of the bay, Wednesday, December 06, 2017, 12:53 @ NDTex

In particular, a deal with a pretty large buyout for the first three years and a substantially smaller buyout after year four. That kind of deal puts the onus on the coach to produce in years one two and three, or to be on the hot seat with a small buyout after year four. I also like renegotiation after year three if the coach has been successful such that, from that point onward, the contract tends to roll between having three and five years left on it so there are no negative recruiting consequences to the deal. I think that a buyout (on either side) can be arranged in that type of rolling structure to be equitable to both parties and not based on the number of years left on what is really a long-term deal with a structure defined by issues other than the term. Locking in a coach for a longer period of time smacks of either small-school foolishness (where the term is long but the buyout small because the term doesn't really matter if the guy gets called away) or little brother syndrome (Texas A&M) or a coach who is going to retire at the school anyway.

NB: I wrote and deleted two posts saying that ND should only offer three year contracts because if the guy doesn't win a championship after year three he should be fired anyway. Couldn't get the sarcastic tone quite right. If anyone else wants to try, go for it!

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Was it Holtz’s quip...

by Jeff (BGS), A starter home in suburban Tempe, Thursday, December 07, 2017, 06:58 @ Greg

I have a lifetime contract at ND as long as I’m leading late in the fourth quarter and moving the ball.

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At night, the ice weasels come.

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I think five years is is the minimum

by Jeff (BGS), A starter home in suburban Tempe, Wednesday, December 06, 2017, 12:45 @ NDTex

Back in the 80s, coaches would often renew their contract with a year or two left. However, this was often used as a tool for negative recruiting: “That coach only has a year left on his contract. If you sign with him, you’ll be playing for a different coach in two years.” So, schools and coaches tried to keep 5 years on every coaches contract at any point in time. Some did this by rolling contracts, some with specific language in the contract (a 10-year deal cancellable after 5 years), and some by signing 6-8 year deals every couple of years.

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At night, the ice weasels come.

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Pitt is working on a 7-year extension with Narduzzi

by Brendan ⌂ @, The Chemical and Oil Refinery State, Tuesday, December 05, 2017, 20:04 @ BPH

To recap, he’s 8-5, 8-5, and 5-7 in his three years there.

Insanity.

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Listen to the voice of Life, and you will hear Life crying, "Be!"

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Keeps getting weirder [now with updates]

by Greg, sittin on the dock of the bay, Tuesday, December 05, 2017, 14:55 @ BPH
edited by Greg, Thursday, December 07, 2017, 09:54

The Power 5 carousel just keeps rolling on

SEC
Arkansas - Morris (Southern Methodist)
Florida - Mullen (Mississippi State)
Mississippi - Luke (interim)
Mississippi State - Moorhead (Penn State OC)
Tennessee - Pruitt (Bama DC)
Texas A&M - Fisher (Florida State)

Pac-12
Arizona State - Edwards (television)
Oregon - open
Oregon State - Smith (Washington OC)
UCLA - Kelly, C. (television/sanctions)

ACC
Florida State - Taggert (Oregon)

B1G
Nebraska - Frost (Central Florida)

Three from other P5 schools; 2 from G5 schools; 2 from TV; 2 offensive coordinators; 1 defensive coordinator; and one from interim status.

Actually getting more normal. The big deal, I think, was the Jimbo/Taggert set of dominoes -- you just don't see two guys from big P5 schools jump like that. Sure, you got something similar a few years ago with Riley and Anderson and Chryst, but Pitt and Oregon State are not FSU and Oregon (though Wisconsin is).

Oregon seems like the last one on the clock (for now).

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SMU’s Chad Morris is going to Arkansas

by Jim (fisherj08) @, A Samoan kid's laptop, Tuesday, December 05, 2017, 16:09 @ Greg

That’s not a bad hire for them!

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I really like it

by NDTex ⌂ @, Dallas, TX, Wednesday, December 06, 2017, 12:05 @ Jim (fisherj08)

It's no Scott Frost rebuild, but getting SMU in a bowl feels like nothing short of a miracle. They are also a ton of fun to watch play. Will be interesting to see how his transition to the SEC goes.

---
Her Loyal Sons | Twitter

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Feldman says Taggart is going to FSU

by Jim (fisherj08) @, A Samoan kid's laptop, Tuesday, December 05, 2017, 13:53 @ BPH

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A surprising fact in Taggart hire

by JD in Portland ⌂, Portland OR, Tuesday, December 05, 2017, 22:03 @ Jim (fisherj08)

Phil Knight was outbid by $10 mill

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Apparently the Phil Knight money

by NDTex ⌂ @, Dallas, TX, Wednesday, December 06, 2017, 12:10 @ JD in Portland

doesn't get thrown around like we think for head coaches.

I chatted with the guy who runs the national CFB coverage for FanSided on my podcast. Anyone he's talked to regarding Phil and Oregon claims that he has no problem throwing money left and right for facilities and technology. Coaching hires...not so much.

That would actually make a lot of sense. Use the Nike money to help brand facilities and R&D for the schools as that can actually be used to benefit your company as well. Don't throw money upon money for coaches that might end up having a sweet buyout life on your tab and return nothing but misery for your program.

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Her Loyal Sons | Twitter

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Every time I hear his name, I think of one thing

by Jeff (BGS), A starter home in suburban Tempe, Tuesday, December 05, 2017, 16:28 @ Jim (fisherj08)

[image]

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At night, the ice weasels come.

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Don't understand the appeal.

by KGB, Tuesday, December 05, 2017, 14:08 @ Jim (fisherj08)

Guy seems to get a shit-ton of credit for setting the table but not actually really winning very much.

I hope that this is one of those situations where everyone involved ends up worse off for the effort: A&M, FSU, stupid greedy overrrated Jimbo, etc. I'd probably wager some money that the whole thing plays out that way.

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I understand your skepticism...

by BPH, San Diego, Tuesday, December 05, 2017, 18:05 @ KGB

and he's far from a sure thing, but I really do see the appeal. He checks a lot of the important boxes for me:

- son of a coach

- worked under an elite coach in Harbaugh and was part of the staff that helped build the Stanford juggernaut

- turned around not one, but two programs

- built a potent offense at USF with the foundation of an explosive, creative running attack (17 straight games scoring at least 30 points, 285 rushing yards per game in his last year)

- tenacious recruiter (Oregon is ranked eighth in the country by 247, which is basically unheard of)

- has proved that he can put together an elite staff (lured Mario Cristobal and Jim Leavitt to Oregon)

I think he's going to be a big success at FSU, and I'm bummed that they got him.

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He was largely responsible for turning WKU

by Jim (fisherj08) @, A Samoan kid's laptop, Tuesday, December 05, 2017, 18:28 @ BPH

into a respectable D-1 program after decades as a 1-AA program, which is extremely impressive.

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What he did at USF was pretty impressive, though

by Jack @, Tuesday, December 05, 2017, 14:16 @ KGB

His first season was 2-10 (Skip was 3-9 the year before) and four years later they were 10-2.

At the very least, it sounds like he's a good recruiter.

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Being a good recruiter at FSU

by KGB, Tuesday, December 05, 2017, 14:36 @ Jack

is about as useful as a screen door on a submarine. Recruiting is the one thing that a big Florida school shouldn't need much help with.

The turnaround at USF was fine but, again, one nice season at USF --> one mediocre year in a plum job at Oregon --> an absurd and presumptive raise offer --> rubber-stamped to coach at FSU. Seriously? I've seen powerball winners whose fortunes improved with less quickness and more merit than this dude.

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"Shouldn't", no, but saying that ignores what has happened

by Jack @, Tuesday, December 05, 2017, 14:55 @ KGB
edited by Jack, Tuesday, December 05, 2017, 15:13

at UF and Miami in the down years.

The state of Florida is loaded with talent. Yet they weren't going to Miami or even UF for quite a number of years like they used to (they are now at Miami; Richt is recruiting like gangbusters).

Then there's also the University of Texas. How is it possible they ever have bad recruiting? Nevertheless, they did, and it wasn't the first time, either.

By the way, per Rivals, the fifth ranked team in 2018 recruiting?

Oregon. Their best ranking under Helfrich was 17th.

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Richt is a competent coach, though.

by KGB, Tuesday, December 05, 2017, 15:45 @ Jack

Miami is never truly lacking for talent. He's winning with many of the same kids who were sucking wind 2 years ago.

Show me a head coach whose best trait is recruiting and I'll show you a school that's probably going to be back in the market looking for a better coach before long.

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Yeah, but you're assuming Taggart isn't

by Jack @, Tuesday, December 05, 2017, 15:59 @ KGB
edited by Jack, Tuesday, December 05, 2017, 16:08

I'm not sure what you're basing that on. Prior to Oregon, he took two schools way down back to being winning teams. Western Kentucky when he took over was so bad they had a 26 game losing streak going. Me, I'll take chance on a turnaround artist under most circumstances, especially a guy who's done it not once, but twice. Based on that and his recruiting, and that he's a Florida native, I think Taggart is the best possible choice for FSU of remaining available coaches. Would I take him over Charlie Strong? After Strong's stint at Texas, absolutely.

As for recruiting, it's not a guarantee of success, but lousy recruiting is certainly a guarantee of failure. Jay mentions a name illustrating that definitively in response to my post below.

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Yeah, well, that's the idea.

by KGB, Wednesday, December 06, 2017, 07:15 @ Jack
edited by KGB, Wednesday, December 06, 2017, 07:26

Mark Richt has a long track record. Mark Richt won 10+ games 9 times in the SEC. Willie Taggart hasn't done anything even remotely close to that. Sure, he turned around two struggling programs, but he didn't fully see it through in either instance. Willie Taggart is like the 350-lb guy who lost 50 lbs and then declared himself a fitness guru. Also, you seemed to be chalking Richt's success at Miami up to recruiting, which is silly. Miami recruits just fine, certainly good enough to beat most ACC schools even in off-years. Which is something they haven't done regularly since joining the conference. The missing component for 15 years has been quality coaching.

Will Taggart excel at FSU? Maybe? Probably? None of us can be certain, but to say at this stage that he will is simply extrapolation. It's an entirely different ballgame, managing a reclamation project compared to running a power program with a bright spotlight shining on you 24/7 and a big target on your back.

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"Miami recruits just fine"

by Jack @, Wednesday, December 06, 2017, 09:18 @ KGB
edited by Jack, Wednesday, December 06, 2017, 09:24

Not at the level Richt is recruiting at now they didn't. And when Miami recruits in the top 5, watch out. Under Golden, they weren't recruiting at that level. They are now under Richt. I don't think in 2 years you're going to see Miami blown out by Clemson like they just were. And I hate them with a passion, so it pains me to say it.

Taggart turning around two programs that were not just bad, but terrible, reminds me of folks like Ara Parseghian, Lou Holtz, Hayden Fry and Urban Meyer who did the same before they got hired at ND, Arkansas, Iowa (another turnaround) and Florida, respectively. I absolutely see the appeal.

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hell, before that he jumped from position coach to HC

by Jay ⌂, San Diego, Tuesday, December 05, 2017, 14:41 @ KGB

without a single snap as a coordinator.

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Ohio State made that same mistake with their coach

by Jack @, Tuesday, December 05, 2017, 14:50 @ Jay
edited by Jack, Tuesday, December 05, 2017, 14:56

And now look at them.

They missed the playoffs!!

Sorry, I just wanted to post again that Ohio State missed the playoffs.

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Willingham was another

by Jay ⌂, San Diego, Tuesday, December 05, 2017, 14:57 @ Jack

[ No text ]

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That's the accelerated market now. Much more risk in these

by BillyGoat, At Thanksgiving with Joe Bethersontin, Tuesday, December 05, 2017, 14:46 @ Jay

hires, but schools no longer have the luxury of being patient enough to allow a coach to become more of a known quantity.

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This is why I’m patient with Kelly

by Jeff (BGS), A starter home in suburban Tempe, Tuesday, December 05, 2017, 16:32 @ BillyGoat

I apologize in advance for opening this can of worms, but damn it’s hard to find a good coach. Florida and FSU are two plum jobs, and they ended up with Mullen and Taggart. Maybe those guys will win championships, but I wouldn’t bet on it.

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At night, the ice weasels come.

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I’m TeamJeff(BGS) on this one.

by Chris @, Raleigh, NC, Tuesday, December 05, 2017, 17:01 @ Jeff (BGS)

I’m actually going to be a little more patient unless this shit really implodes.

---
"F--- everyone who isn't us."
#Team128

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He almost makes Lane Kiffin look deserving by comparison.

by KGB, Tuesday, December 05, 2017, 15:35 @ BillyGoat

[ No text ]

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I don't think Phil Knight is going to bankroll hiring Sumlin

by Jack @, Tuesday, December 05, 2017, 13:20 @ BPH

The guy just got fired. I don't see it happening.

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Entirely predictable by Fulmer

by irishvol @, Music City, USA, Tuesday, December 05, 2017, 12:30 @ BPH

This was my primary concern with him. He's an old school guy who will hire an old school coach with limited upside - as evidenced by the list of guys he's zeroed in on (Miles, Morris, Steele, Tucker). Sounds like Miles is out, but the other three would all be "blah" hires from my perspective. They've gone from serious discussions with Leach and Brohm to those three? Ugh.

And if they're going the coordinator route (Steele, Tucker), I'd prefer they focus more on Venables. Or, heaven forbid, Tee Martin. Both offer a far higher ceiling than Morris / Steele / Tucker group.

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I’m surprised Miles isn’t getting more looks

by Jeff (BGS), A starter home in suburban Tempe, Tuesday, December 05, 2017, 16:38 @ irishvol

I know he’s clinically insane and allergic to offense, but I’d think he’s better than a lot of what is out there. Maybe his age is holding people back.

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At night, the ice weasels come.

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My primary concern with Fulmer, on the other hand...

by Greg, sittin on the dock of the bay, Tuesday, December 05, 2017, 12:36 @ irishvol
edited by Greg, Tuesday, December 05, 2017, 12:46

...is that his blood has been entirely replaced with sausage gravy.

[image]

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re: Oregon, interesting that Lenzy reached back out to ND

by Jay ⌂, San Diego, Tuesday, December 05, 2017, 10:50 @ BPH
edited by Jay, Tuesday, December 05, 2017, 11:00

I wonder who Oregon will hire when Taggart bolts. That’s still a pretty good job. Would they look at Riley?

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Lenzy just "officially" decommitted from Oregon

by Jack @, Tuesday, December 05, 2017, 15:25 @ Jay

[ No text ]

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They'd be foolish to hire Riley

by BPH, San Diego, Tuesday, December 05, 2017, 11:24 @ Jay

Oregon fancies itself as a cutting-edge program, and Taggart brought youthful swagger to the operation. Riley decidedly would not, and he clearly has lost a lot off his fastball. As I wrote, I think Sumlin on a bounce-back makes a lot of sense.

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then in a couple of years, it can be

by Jay ⌂, San Diego, Tuesday, December 05, 2017, 14:17 @ BPH

Taggart to A&M, Jimbo to Oregon, and Sumlin to FSU

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Riley won’t get a sniff

by JD in Portland ⌂, Portland OR, Tuesday, December 05, 2017, 13:56 @ BPH

Word is they’ll swing for some fence, then quickly backtrack to one of the 2 coordinators in an effort to hold their recruiting class together, then figure out if they have the right guy as they look ahead to 2019 and maybe get back in the market then when the pickings are better.
The other 2 candidates they liked last year are gone- Frost and Mullen. They looked at Fleck but didn’t like him supppsddly

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If we can convince him that he can run track too...

by Jim (fisherj08) @, A Samoan kid's laptop, Tuesday, December 05, 2017, 11:19 @ Jay

[ No text ]

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Is the issue he wants to be a track-first guy?

by HullieAndMikes, Joe Turner's bookcase, ALHS, Tuesday, December 05, 2017, 11:26 @ Jim (fisherj08)

Or track-equal? I mean, Atkinson and some others have done it, but the second sport clearly was second fiddle for them and Hunter and Golden.

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More "equal" I think

by Jeremy (WeIsND), Offices of Babip Pecota Vorp & Eckstein, Tuesday, December 05, 2017, 12:13 @ HullieAndMikes

In some of the post-decommit stories, he made it sound like the coaches had "promised" him that he could run track year-round, whenever he wanted. Whereas, I believe ND actually told him that football would come first, track would come when he had time available. he felt he had been lied to by ND on that front.

Seems like he has a real future in track, so he probably shouldn't be coming to ND if he wants to try out for the Olympics, or something like that.

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Yeah I'm confused he ever committed to ND

by HullieAndMikes, Joe Turner's bookcase, ALHS, Tuesday, December 05, 2017, 12:22 @ Jeremy (WeIsND)

The prospects who have serious track potential always end up in the PAC-12, which makes sense given those programs.

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Or the SEC, maybe FSU/Clemson

by Jeremy (WeIsND), Offices of Babip Pecota Vorp & Eckstein, Tuesday, December 05, 2017, 12:52 @ HullieAndMikes

[ No text ]

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Heupel seems like a great hire for UCF

by Jay ⌂, San Diego, Tuesday, December 05, 2017, 10:38 @ BPH

Mizzou actually led the SEC in offense this year, and Drew Lock was the 1st team all-SEC quarterback.

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Seems like it.

by oviedoirish @, Oviedo, Florida, Tuesday, December 05, 2017, 12:09 @ Jay

He knows offenses and QB development.

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seems he got a personal recommendation as well

by Jay ⌂, San Diego, Tuesday, December 05, 2017, 12:17 @ oviedoirish

Your AD's brother is an assistant AD at Mizzou.

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If Heupel does well, then maybe he'll leave

by oviedoirish @, Oviedo, Florida, Tuesday, December 05, 2017, 13:40 @ Jay

UCF in two years for ND?

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both ND grads

by Pat, Right behind you, Tuesday, December 05, 2017, 12:35 @ Jay

and sons of former ND AD Kevin White.

And to complete the circle, when Missouri's new AD was hired, the intro bio page included a big glowing recommendation from Kevin White.

And don't forget about the other brother, Mike, who is the head coach of the Florida Gators basketball team.

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