OT: International travel and terrorism

by irishvol @, Music City, USA, Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 11:41 (2942 days ago)

Not quite sure how to ask this, but I figured this group is worldly enough to provide some food for thought.

My wife and I recently booked a trip to Spain for our 10th anniversary this summer. We've traveled to Europe several times, though not since our kids have been born (6+ years). We love to travel.

One of my wife's coworkers and his wife were killed in last week's terrorist attack in Brussels. My wife hadn't worked with him for terribly long, but the nature of her job (risk management) meant that she was right in the middle of the search for information, communication with family members, and ultimately, assisting with all of the arrangements after their status was known. While we aren't going to make a decision on this until we've had some time to distance ourselves from the situation, we're reconsidering whether to take the trip (we have trip insurance).

We're both numbers folks - we know full well that the odds of finding yourself in the middle of a terrorist incident are incredibly small, that you're more likely to die in the car on the way to the airport, etc. We're generally cautious when we travel and know that, more than likely, we'd be fine. We also believe that insulating ourselves, for lack of a better term, allows the terrorists to "win".

On the other hand, we've never been this close to terrorism. We have kids now. My wife has remarked that she's concerned she'll be looking over her shoulder the entire trip. The fact that it's happened before in Spain (2004) isn't really helping. And while no friends/family have told us directly that we shouldn't go, several have made comments suggesting that they likely wouldn't make the trip.

If anyone has any words of wisdom, I'd appreciate it.

I've been to the UK twice since we have had kids...

by Jim (OFD) @, Naptown, Thursday, March 31, 2016, 05:57 (2941 days ago) @ irishvol

my wife has actually been more (for work--5 times maybe) and our oldest isn't even 5 yet.

It isn't easy, but as long as you are comfortable with who they are staying with (grandparents, aunt/uncle, friends) you should go. Clearly, your situation is unique. However, as others have said there is a risk in stepping out your front door every single day.

I don't know, are you a 10?

by Jim (fisherj08) @, A Samoan kid's laptop, Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 15:09 (2942 days ago) @ irishvol

I think you should go.

by oviedoirish @, Oviedo, Florida, Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 13:45 (2942 days ago) @ irishvol

But if your kids are not going with you, then just make sure that you have everything arranged to take care of them if something happens (Wills, guardianship, etc.). And this applies to any kind of accident, not just terrorism.

I think this is overdoing it, but I have friends that when their kids were little and not going with them, they would fly on separate flights just so they both wouldn't be taken out in a plane crash.

My parents always did that.

by Jim (fisherj08) @, A Samoan kid's laptop, Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 14:21 (2942 days ago) @ oviedoirish

- No text -

Will she enjoy the trip? Will it be worth the hassle?

by Buck Mulligan, Martello Tower, Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 12:38 (2942 days ago) @ irishvol

What are the alternatives?

You already know the answers.

I don't, but you do.

Thanks everyone (Madrid/Barcelona)

by irishvol @, Music City, USA, Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 12:24 (2942 days ago) @ irishvol
edited by Jay, Monday, April 18, 2016, 08:28

We both know the answer is likely "go" - at this point, we just need to get comfortable enough with that decision to enjoy the trip. I appreciate the feedback.

On a related (yet more trivial) note, any suggestions for Madrid and Barcelona? In particular, assuming we go, I'd like to do at least one nice meal to celebrate 10 years. With the caveat that she doesn't really eat seafood (which will make dining on this trip tough in general...)

Tags:
travel

Quimet & Quiment!

by nedhead, Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 16:50 (2942 days ago) @ irishvol

Possibly my favorite little restaurant in the world. It's not somewhere that you'd go for a nice mean - they don't have seats and it's crowded. But it's delicious tapas, good wine/beer, and cheap.

As for your question, if you don't go, it would be because you'd be looking over your shoulder, not for risk minimization. Consider tweaking your plans a bit to reduce the time you are at big tourist places in Madrid and Barcelona. Spain is a wonderful country. Go to Granada and Cordoba and Andalusia. I've never been up north, but have heard it's beautiful (and cool in the summer).

keep an eye on your wife

by Jay ⌂, San Diego, Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 13:38 (2942 days ago) @ irishvol

Ex-Girlfriend Don't Want To Speak To You No More, New European Boyfriend Reports

LANCASTER, PA—According to the latest information provided by the unnamed, impossibly debonair-sounding European man who is now answering all of her calls, your ex-girlfriend, Rebecca Norsten, "don't want to speak to you no more."

The new policy of non-communication, not elaborated upon by Norsten herself, was announced during a phone call to her apartment early Monday morning in the suave, confident tones of an Italian or possibly Portuguese individual of indeterminate height and muscle tone. Phone records indicate the statement was made at 9:35 a.m.—approximately one hour and 25 minutes too early for the speaker to have been a platonic visitor who did not spend all last night giving the love of your life everything you never could.

"Rebecca is no coming to the phone, my friend," reported the exotic-sounding stranger, who rolled his R's in a manner that strongly suggested he can outperform you sexually. "I am condolence for you, but what is to be done? There are many fishes, yes?"

The probable Mediterranean sex god concluded the statement by saying "ciao," after which it can be assumed he returned to his previous task of hand-feeding your ex-girlfriend slices of juicy mango while she reclined naked in a hammock, finally free from the burden of dating you.

That's Henri. He's going to steal your girlfriend.

by Mike (Embrey), Mountain Holler, Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 14:31 (2942 days ago) @ Jay

[image]

--
2013 Survivor Pool Champion
2014 Survivor Pool Failure

Barcelona advice - Do not eat on Las Ramblas

by Dylan, Indianapolisish, Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 13:01 (2942 days ago) @ irishvol
edited by Dylan, Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 13:05

Walk 100 feet off Las Ramblas and eat at this place:

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g187497-d717425-Reviews-Irati_Taverna_Bas...

Maybe the most beautiful food you'll ever eat.

[image]

For more of a sit-down experience we also really enjoyed Taller de Tapas and Cuitat Comtal, both on Rambla de Catalunya.

The food in Barcelona is fuckin bonkers.

100% metaphyscal agreeance

by Jack @, Thursday, March 31, 2016, 08:17 (2941 days ago) @ Dylan

Only rubes who don't know any better eat on Las Ramblas.

There are so many great places nearby in the Gothic Quarter it's hard to know where to begin.

and here:

by IrishGuard, Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 14:00 (2942 days ago) @ Dylan
edited by IrishGuard, Thursday, March 31, 2016, 06:54

Quimet & Quiment: https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g187497-d717377-Reviews-Quimet_Quimet-Bar...

World's best tapas hole (plus they brew their own amazing black beer).


Here's our itinerary for the short Barcelona portion of our Eurojaunt in 2011:

Day 6 - Wednesday, March 30 – Barcelona
Walk to Placa de la Carbonera, walk up Las Ramblas to Gothic Quarter, visit Cathedral, Plaça de Sant Jaume, Picasso Museum, Santa Maria Del Mar, head for a late dinner at El Rincon Del Cava

Day 7 - Thursday, March 31 – Barcelona
Take L2 train to Sagrada Familia stop (get there early to buy tix for the 11am English tour), take L2 train back to Passeig de Gracia stop, walk up Passieg de Gracia (past Casa Batllo and Casa Mila) to explore Gaudi's Parc Guell, head back for dinner at Quimet & Quimet

That is a very good itinerary

by Jack @, Thursday, March 31, 2016, 08:17 (2941 days ago) @ IrishGuard

- No text -

I didn't read your post before I posted.

by nedhead, Thursday, March 31, 2016, 02:42 (2941 days ago) @ IrishGuard

But obviously, completely and strongly agree.

I went there but didn't eat

by Dylan, Indianapolisish, Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 14:36 (2942 days ago) @ IrishGuard

We were traveling with my parents and they were over the whole "stand up and eat tapas" thing at that point. We walked in and walked out.

Barcelona is warmer than Madrid

by Jeff (BGS) @, A starter home in suburban Tempe, Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 13:53 (2942 days ago) @ Dylan

but, then, the people are so different, the Barcelonians and the Madridniks.

--
At night, the ice weasels come.

Both cities are fantastic, but different from

by Jack @, Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 12:41 (2942 days ago) @ irishvol
edited by Jack, Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 12:50

each other in many ways, including in the language (don't worry, no Catalonian expects tourists to know Catalan).

I haven't been in Madrid in almost 30 years but I was in Barcelona last year, and it is one of my favorite cities on earth. The only thing more beautiful than the architecture is the women. The food is incredible, and the seafood your wife doesn't want is but one part of it. The best thing is that the food is so fresh, because Spain is such a big food producer of all kinds of things. Sagrada Familia is knock your socks off stunning. The walks on the Paseig de Gracia and the entire Eixample district, down to the Ramblas and all through the Gothic Quarter are wonderful. The weather is great. I don't care about beaches, but if you do, there's a beach.

You get the idea that I kind of like the place.

But, there is one thing bad about Barcelona, and it has to do with being street smart. It is one of the worst cities for pickpockets in Europe. Be extremely careful. Don't carry your wallet in your back pocket. Keep your passport in your hotel, preferably the safe. Be careful of anything you carry with a strap. As always, the more crowded a place is, the more likely you are to be victimized, especially if you're easily identified as a tourist. In Europe, there is one thing never to wear unless you want everyone to know you're an American from 50 feet away, and that is a baseball cap. Leave them at home. I bought a Barcelona FC cap (Americans do like to buy them, of course, me included), but it went straight to my suitcase. The pickpockets work in teams, and the worst places are when there are street entertainers to distract you. And there are a lot on the Ramblas especially - both street entertainers and pickpockets. Also watch out on the subway. It's a very nice subway (beats the snot out of MARTA), much of it built for the '92 Olympics, but pickpockets all over the world love subways.

If your careful, you won't have a problem. It is a freaking awesome city. And you are far more likely to be a crime victim in Atlanta.

I'm curious. Why doesn't your Queen like seafood?

by hobbs, San Diego, CA, Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 12:30 (2942 days ago) @ irishvol
edited by hobbs, Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 12:38

I am a meat/beef guy but fish done right is fantastic. Its also light.

Mine doesn't like the texture

by Brendan ⌂ @, The Chemical and Oil Refinery State, Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 17:23 (2942 days ago) @ hobbs

Occasionally she'll choke down some tilapia, but that's it, and even that is only once or twice a year. She barely tolerates me eating shellfish in front of her - says she can't stand the snap. Also why she doesn't like hot dogs, btw. Much like irishvol, it's a point that I've just conceded without the need to understand it.

--
"Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." - Yeats

And man, oh man, is the seafood in Barcelona incredible

by Jack @, Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 12:47 (2942 days ago) @ hobbs

I think I had the best seafood dinner in my life there, in a restaurant right on the harbor. Unfortunately, I don't remember the name of the place.

Beats me.

by irishvol @, Music City, USA, Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 12:36 (2942 days ago) @ hobbs

It's pretty far down the list of things that I don't understand about her...

I've been married 25 years,

by oviedoirish @, Oviedo, Florida, Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 13:36 (2942 days ago) @ irishvol

and there are things I still haven't learned or understand. :-)

we chose a domestic honeymoon for that reason

by HumanRobot @, Cybertron, Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 12:18 (2942 days ago) @ irishvol

Back in last summer, we were thinking about Greece or somewhere in Europe but in the end decided on Asheville. We had an awesome time.

there's always the Paris of the Midwest

by Jay ⌂, San Diego, Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 12:23 (2942 days ago) @ HumanRobot

- No text -

I actually know a guy who spent his honeymoon in Bakersfield

by hobbs, San Diego, CA, Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 13:13 (2942 days ago) @ Jay
edited by hobbs, Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 15:47

After I regained my composure, I asked if they ran outta gas on the way to Vegas or something.

Nope, Bakersfield, CA was their destination.

What, Fresno was booked up?

by Jack @, Thursday, March 31, 2016, 08:15 (2941 days ago) @ hobbs

- No text -

there's a very nice Sports Authority there

by Jay ⌂, San Diego, Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 13:22 (2942 days ago) @ hobbs

- No text -

omg

by Dylan, Indianapolisish, Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 13:36 (2942 days ago) @ Jay

- No text -

Cleveland

by MHB (Rakes of Mallow), Chicago, IL, United States, Earth-199999, Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 12:44 (2942 days ago) @ Jay

- No text -

Paris, Missouri?

by Bryan (IrishCavan), Howth Castle and Environs, Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 12:26 (2942 days ago) @ Jay

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Head over heart. It's what you have to do

by Jack @, Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 12:10 (2942 days ago) @ irishvol
edited by Jack, Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 12:26

First off, before the main subject of your question, my heart goes out to your wife. My best friend from high school works for Aon in Chicago and before that Marsh and McLennon. Those were two companies hit very hard on 9/11, with one in the south tower and the other in the north tower of the WTC. For Aon he was one of the phone volunteers dealing with the aftermath, having to keep calm and helping to calm other people after over 50 people he knew well were killed. Needless to say, he says it's the hardest thing he ever had to do. I can imagine it's the same for your wife.

On the question -

Just remember those odds. They're lower than the odds of crashing on the plane you'll be taking there, even in high profile cities. It's not actually different. It's risk as you wife knows in her profession.

You have better odds at being killed in a car accident on the way to work. You have to think this way or it paralyzes you. There really isn't any other way to look at it.

As for looking over your shoulder, that's not necessarily a bad thing. You need to be streetwise in any big city.

I would go

by Jeff (BGS) @, A starter home in suburban Tempe, Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 12:08 (2942 days ago) @ irishvol

The only reason I can think of for canceling is if you think you'll be nervous enough during the trip that you won't enjoy it. If you think you'll be looking over your shoulder the entire time, then postpone it. The fact that your wife has a personal emotional connection to Brussels probably makes this a little more likely.

Presuming nothing happens between now and then, the time and distance between the recent attacks and your trip will likely insulate the memory a bit.

If you have kids, the regular advice of making sure you have life insurance and a up-to-date will should give you some piece of mind. But, those things are important to have anyway. As you say, the odds are much more likely for something bad to happen on a regular day to day basis than from a terrorist attack.

--
At night, the ice weasels come.

I was in Brussels 10 months ago

by hobbs, San Diego, CA, Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 12:04 (2942 days ago) @ irishvol

they had experienced a terrorist attack the year before, but the threat level was a lot lower than it is today. My attitude was I only have one life to live and I'm going to see as much of the world as I can before I go. The odds are in my favor and I'm going to enjoy myself. Of note, I wasn't with wife & kids. If they were apart of the equation I might have taken a more caution approach.

Its tricky for the tourist because unless you have an International DL, you're going to have to use public transit and those are the soft targets that terrorists love.

As an aside I loved Belgium, but I was a history major so I get off on the "old world".

I understand the concern about the kids.

by Bryan (IrishCavan), Howth Castle and Environs, Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 12:03 (2942 days ago) @ irishvol

I have spent time in Belfast during the Troubles and even stayed at the Europa hotel, which the IRA bombed a number of times. I was on a train in Amsterdam not far from the Spanish consulate when the ETA tried to blow it up. The train shook like crazy (thankfully we had just departed a coffee shop and were feeling no pain). I flew to Ireland shortly after 9/11. Probably because my grandparents died in a commercial plane crash, I think I'm going to die every time I get on a plane. I get the concern, especially since you now have kids. But I try not to let these things stop me from living the way I want to live. You obviously don't want to put yourself in a precarious situation, but the chances of it happening to you and your wife are miniscule. My advice: go and enjoy your trip.

Go on the trip, but trust the buzzing in your head

by HullieAndMikes, Yelling at Sam Cane, Dunedin, Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 11:59 (2942 days ago) @ irishvol

Over the ~12 years I've been a professional reporter/writer/whatever, there have been five or six times (interviews in pre-gentrified Crown Heights; murder scene in housing project; unknowingly blown off and waiting for a murder victim's relative in one of the worst parts of Baltimore; proximity to black bloc protestors in NYC) where I've thought that I've been close to trouble.

It's happened abroad too; I got rocks thrown at my bus in Belfast and stayed in a East Berlin neighborhood that was ground zero in Turk-German fights.

Each time, honestly, you just get a warning sign in your head and gut. You start getting that "I stick out" feeling, and leave.

As you know and say, the odds of being part of this horrible history are small compared to just getting mugged or something. But the common denominator, I've found, is to trust your instincts even if the danger probably only lurks in your brain.

EDIT: I realize what I am saying is not entirely analogous to large symbolic acts of violence, but it's the best I got. From what I've read by war correspondents, they go by the same logic and admit they only really get in trouble when they ignore it.

I'd ask the same of everyone.

by Grantland, y'allywood, Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 11:52 (2942 days ago) @ irishvol
edited by Grantland, Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 12:04

We are all going to Rome this summer via New York. Nice "high profile" cities.

Frankly, I am kind of a home boy. I just assume play golf at my little club and fish in my little rivers.

But my wife loves to travel.

She landed in New York from Rome about 1am on 9/11/01 - she was living in NYC at the time. She had friends in the Towers.

You'd think she would be more freaked out but she is not.

By the way, one good thing to come out of 9/11 is my wife and kids. Stephanie would be in some international European city had she not become incredibly home sick after 9/11. I would never have "re-met" her.

EDIT: very sorry about your wife's friends.

mulling the same, actually

by Jay ⌂, San Diego, Wednesday, March 30, 2016, 11:49 (2942 days ago) @ irishvol

We'll be in Paris for most of July this year with some touring around the continent prior to that. The kids will be with us. We aren't seriously considering canceling anything at this point, but Paris and now Brussels (along with the State Dept alerts that I posted about last week) have us thinking about how we're going to approach this. I'm not sure what you can do other than avoiding public transport (fat chance) or big public events. Euro Cup is hosted by France this year and I was thinking of catching a match if possible, but now I'm rethinking that. Also the typical Bastille Day events that we were banking on (parade, fireworks, Bal du Pompier, etc) we'll have to think about. It's definitely added a lot of stress. I'm really sorry to hear about your wife's colleagues; that must be horrible.

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