the Polo Grounds

Back to the forum index

Mock drafts are usually pretty silly

by Pat, Right behind you, Wednesday, October 07, 2015, 09:39

especially ones 6 months or so before the draft. I'm curious just how wrong and useless they are, so I'm going to copy this one down and tag it so we can revisit it at draft time. How many of these "Top 100" players will actually be drafted in the Top 100? 75%? 50%?

I'm grabbing this one because (a) it has 6 ND players in the Top 100, (b) 10(!) OSU players in the top 55, and (c) is from the "NFL Draft Lead Writer" for Bleacher/Report, a position you'd think would require some accuracy. At the very least, it's a snap shot of the Top 100 draft eligible players at Power 5 schools.

2016 Top 100 Rankings
Rank Player School Pos
1 Jared Goff California QB
2 Jaylon Smith Notre Dame LB
3 Joey Bosa Ohio State EDGE
4 Ronnie Stanley Notre Dame T
5 Vernon Hargreaves Florida CB
6 Robert Nkemdiche Ole Miss DL
7 Laremy Tunsil Ole Miss T
8 Jalen Ramsey Florida State CB
9 Mike Williams Clemson WR
10 Laquon Treadwell Ole Miss WR
11 Jack Conklin Michigan State T
12 Christian Hackenberg Penn State QB
13 Ezekiel Elliott Ohio State RB
14 Jordan Jenkins Georgia EDGE
15 Myles Jack UCLA LB
16 Kenny Clark UCLA DL
17 A'Shawn Robinson Alabama DL
18 DeForest Buckner Oregon DL
19 Taylor Decker Ohio State T
20 Su'a Cravens USC LB/S
21 Austin Johnson Penn State DL
22 Shaq Lawson Clemson EDGE
23 Tyler Boyd Pitt WR
24 Jayron Kearse Clemson FS
25 Michael Thomas Ohio State WR
26 Vonn Bell Ohio State SS
27 Darron Lee Ohio State EDGE
28 Jeremy Cash Duke SS
29 Kenny Lawler California WR
30 Josh Doctson TCU WR
31 Vince Biegel Wisconsin EDGE
32 Andrew Billings Baylor DL
33 Shilique Calhoun Michigan State EDGE
34 Joshua Perry Ohio State LB
35 Reggie Ragland Alabama LB
36 Scooby Wright Arizona LB
37 Leonard Floyd Georgia EDGE
38 Adolphus Washington Ohio State DL
39 Cameron Sutton Tennessee CB
40 Jason Spriggs Indiana T
41 Darian Thompson Boise State FS
42 Will Fuller Notre Dame WR
43 Jarran Reed Alabama DL
44 Paul Perkins UCLA RB
45 Jonathan Bullard Florida EDGE
46 Kentrell Brothers Missouri LB
47 Chris Jones Mississippi State DL
48 Cardale Jones Ohio State QB
49 Tre'Davious White LSU CB
50 Rashard Higgins Colorado State WR
51 Hunter Henry Arkansas TE
52 Sheldon Day Notre Dame DL
53 Vadal Alexander LSU G
54 Connor Cook Michigan State QB
55 Braxton Miller Ohio State WR
56 Germain Ifedi Texas A&M T
57 O.J. Howard Alabama TE
58 Emmanuel Ogbah Oklahoma State EDGE
59 Max Tuerk USC C
60 Jake Butt Michigan TE
61 Corey Coleman Baylor WR
62 Sheldon Rankins Louisville DL
63 C.J. Prosise Notre Dame RB
64 Devontae Booker Utah RB
65 Tajae Sharpe UMass WR
66 Derrick Henry Alabama RB
67 Carson Wentz North Dakota State QB
68 Evan Engram Ole Miss TE
69 Karl Joseph West Virginia SS
70 Spencer Drango Baylor T
71 Roberto Aguayo Florida State K
72 Connor McGovern Missouri G
73 Jacoby Brissett NC State QB
74 Christian Westerman Arizona State G
75 Daeshon Hall Texas A&M EDGE
76 Noah Spence Eastern Kentucky EDGE
77 Maliek Collins Nebraska DL
78 Cody Whitehair Kansas State G
79 Fabian Moreau UCLA CB
80 William Jackson Houston CB
81 Pat Elflein Ohio State G
82 Cody Kessler USC QB
83 Nick Martin Notre Dame C
84 Devonte Fields TCU EDGE
85 Alex Collins Arkansas RB
86 Evan Boehm Missouri C
87 Kodi Whitfield Stanford FS
88 Byron Marshall Oregon RB/WR
89 K.J. Dillon West Virginia FS
90 Christian French Oregon EDGE
91 Chris Wormley Michigan DL
92 Joe Schobert Wisconsin LB
93 Sterling Shepard Oklahoma WR
94 Carl Nassib Penn State EDGE
95 Eric Striker Oklahoma EDGE
96 Curt Maggitt Tennessee EDGE
97 Mike Matthews Texas A&M C
98 Michael Jordan Missouri Western CB
99 Kendall Fuller Virginia Tech CB
100 Kendell Beckwith LSU LB



Here's another one from CBS Sports

by BPH, San Diego, Wednesday, October 07, 2015, 18:02 @ Pat

Stanley at No. 7, Smith at 8, Day at 21.

2016 NFL Mock Draft: Bosa a fit for Bucs

By Dane Brugler

It’s too early to determine the strongest position in the 2016 NFL Draft, but defensive tackle looks like a viable candidate to be the most represented position in the first round, depending on underclassmen. Ole Miss’ Robert Nkemdiche has top 10 potential, UCLA’s Kenny Clark is flying under the radar and Ohio State’s Adolphus Washington seems to make himself money with every game this season.

Team needs will change, the draft order (which is the inverse order of the latest CBS power rankings) won’t end up this way and the prospects below will help and hurt themselves throughout the 2015 season. But if the draft was held tomorrow, here’s how it might play out:


1. TAMPA BAY BUCCANEERS (1-2): Joey Bosa, DE, Ohio State: The Bucs invested heavily on the offensive side in last spring’s draft, but that theme should switch to defense in the 2016 class. Bosa isn’t the quick-twitch edge rusher that most teams covet, but he is more well-rounded than most 20-year olds with a great blend of power, quickness and smarts.

2. CHICAGO BEARS (0-3): Jared Goff, QB, California: The Bears are currently locked into a long-term deal with Jay Cutler, but if they are able to find a way out of that contract, Goff should be priority No. 1 in the draft. The Cal passer might not have elite physical tools, but he’s off-the-charts above the neck.

3. JACKSONVILLE JAGUARS (1-2): Robert Nkemdiche, DT, Ole Miss: The Jaguars’ coaching staff and front office value versatility on the defensive line and Nkemdiche offers just that with his athletic ability to line up inside as a three technique or outside at end. He isn’t yet a polished product, but his potential is enticing.

4. NEW ORLEANS SAINTS (0-3): Jalen Ramsey, CB, Florida State: The Saints are holding the secondary together with patchwork players and need a playmaker with difference-making potential like Ramsey, who can line up at cornerback or safety.

5. CLEVELAND BROWNS (1-2): Connor Cook, QB, Michigan State: The No. 1 goal in Cleveland is to get the quarterback position figured out because the front office knows the organization won’t be successful without a winner under center. Is Cook the answer? Maybe. His skill-set reminds scouts of a mix of Carson Palmer and Ryan Tannehill.

6. OAKLAND RAIDERS (2-1): Laremy Tunsil, OT, Ole Miss: Oakland has some momentum as a team on the rise, and a big reason for that is the promise of recent first round picks Khalil Mack and Amari Cooper. Can the Raiders nail the first round three straight years? Tunsil is a plug-and-play left tackle with tremendous body control for a player his size.

7. DETROIT LIONS (0-3): Ronnie Stanley, OT, Notre Dame: While Riley Rieff has one of the offensive tackle spots locked down for the Lions, the other side isn’t nearly as secure. Stanley isn’t a flawless prospect as he needs refinement to his game, but the natural tools cannot be coached.

8. TENNESSEE TITANS (1-2): Jaylon Smith, OLB, Notre Dame: With Zach Brown in the final year of his contract, linebacker could be a need area this offseason. Smith needs to do more to shed blocks, but he’s a special athlete for the position who can drop in coverage and blitz the pocket.

9. SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS (1-2): Leonard Floyd, OLB, Georgia: The San Francisco roster has been weakened the past few seasons, especially on defense. It will be tough for any player to replace the impact Aldon Smith made for the 49ers, but Floyd has similar athleticism off the edge to threaten the pocket.

10. HOUSTON TEXANS (1-2): DeForest Buckner, DE, Oregon: With Goff and Cook off the board in this mock, would Bill O’Brien pull the trigger on Christian Hackenberg, his former quarterback at Penn State? It’s possible, but assuming he doesn’t, Buckner would give Houston a terrific bookend defensive end with J.J. Watt.

11. PHILADELPHIA EAGLES (1-2): A’Shawn Robinson, DT, Alabama: The Eagles have impact players on the defensive line with Bennie Logan and Fletcher Cox, but Cedric Thornton and Brandon Bair have battled injuries and defensive line depth isn’t a team strength. Robinson fits coach Chip Kelly’s mold for “bigger, faster, stronger” players on defense.

12. WASHINGTON REDSKINS (1-2): Vernon Hargreaves III, CB, Florida: Redskins general manager Scot McCloughan has an eye for talent, but also smart, disciplined players. And although slightly undersized, Hargreaves is a polished cover man who trusts what he sees.

13. BALTIMORE RAVENS (1-3): Ezekiel Elliott, RB, Ohio State: Baltimore re-signed Justin Forsett and drafted Javorius Allen last offseason, but is still missing that playmaker in the backfield. Elliott has rushed for 100-plus yards in 10 consecutive games and has the skillset to be an impact starter at the NFL level.

14. NY GIANTS (1-2): Kendall Fuller, CB, Virginia Tech: Prince Amukamara is a free agent after the season and Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie has struggled to stay healthy for a full season, so cornerback looks like a potential offseason need for the Giants. Fuller is still developing, but the raw traits are a great foundation.

15. MIAMI DOLPHINS (1-2): Myles Jack, OLB, UCLA: The Dolphins have some question marks at linebacker and Jack might be too good to pass up here. He is currently on the sideline with a knee injury, but as long as his rehab is on track, he’s worth a top 15 pick.

16. KANSAS CITY CHIEFS (1-2): Taylor Decker, OT, Ohio State: With Eric Fisher struggling and Donald Stephenson eligible for free agency after the season, offensive tackle could be the top priority this offseason for the Chiefs. Decker’s height can hinder him at times, but he moves well laterally with a balanced anchor to handle any type of rusher.

17. SAN DIEGO CHARGERS (1-2): Kenny Clark, DT, UCLA: Arguably the best run defender at the college level, Clark is now the leader of the Bruins defense with Jack going down with an injury. He is a perfect fit for the Chargers’ three-man front rotation.

18. ST. LOUIS RAMS (1-2): Su’a Cravens, OLB, Southern California: The Rams have to face Kam Chancellor twice a year and Cravens is a player in the similar mold. He would be an upgrade at strong safety and Jeff Fisher hasn’t met a USC safety he didn’t like.

19. BUFFALO BILLS (2-1): Jack Conklin, OT, Michigan State: With Cordy Glenn set for free agency and Cyrus Kouandjio not a reliable option, the Bills might look to the draft to fill a need at offensive tackle. There isn’t much flashy about Conklin, but he is well-rounded and doesn’t make mistakes.

20. MINNESOTA VIKINGS (2-1): Laquon Treadwell, WR, Ole Miss: With Cordarrelle Patterson a non-factor on offense, the Vikings need to find that go-to weapon for Teddy Bridgewater. Treadwell won’t be a target who consistently creates separation, but with his body control and ballskills, he doesn’t need to - think of a less dynamic version of Dez Bryant.

21. ATLANTA FALCONS (3-0): Sheldon Day, DT, Notre Dame: While he’s not on Aaron Donald’s level, Day will be dinged during the draft process for similar reasons with his lack of height, length and growth potential for an interior player. But he has rare athleticism for the position and Dan Quinn can use him up front to create interior pressure.

22. INDIANAPOLIS COLTS (1-2): Adolphus Washington, DT, Ohio State: The Colts need to get better and add depth in the trenches on both offense and defense. Washington returned to Columbus for his senior season and is showing improvement with each game, pushing his draft value higher and higher.

23. NEW YORK JETS (3-1): Reggie Ragland, LB, Alabama: Playing the Don’t’a Hightower role for Nick Saban at Alabama, Ragland is a hard-nosed run defender and fits what Todd Bowles wants to do on defense.

24. PITTSBURGH STEELERS (2-2): Tre’Davious White, CB, LSU: The Steelers drafted two cornerbacks in the top four rounds of the 2015 NFL Draft, but Doran Grant has been cut already and Senquez Golson was shelved due to injury. White is a good-sized cornerback with the athleticism and toughness for the NFL.

25. CAROLINA PANTHERS (3-0): Shilique Calhoun, DE, Michigan State: The Panthers have invested several high draft picks in recent years to upgrade the front-seven and that might continue in the 2016 class. Calhoun has steadily developed the past four seasons in East Lansing and would give Carolina another pass rusher for the rotation.

26. CINCINNATI BENGALS (3-0): Shawn Oakman, DE, Baylor: The Bengals had high hopes for Margus Hunt, but his development stalled once Mike Zimmer left for the Minnesota Vikings. Oakman has similar issues, but is already further along in his development than Hunt was at this stage of his career.

27. SEATTLE SEAHAWKS (1-2): Michael Thomas, WR, Ohio State: With Jermaine Kearse and Ricardo Lockette hitting free agency after the 2015 season, Thomas would give the Seahawks a dependable X, Y and Z with Doug Baldwin, Tyler Lockett and Thomas.

28. DENVER BRONCOS (3-0): Max Tuerk, C, Southern California: NFL scouts seem split on Tuerk and his pro projection, but some see him as a top 40 player. And the Broncos’ need at center is substantial enough that this wouldn’t be a reach for that offense.

29. DALLAS COWBOYS (2-1): Darron Lee, OLB, Ohio State: Derrick Henry and Ezekiel Elliott are options for the Cowboys in the first round, but both are off the board in this scenario. The Cowboys were ready to draft Ryan Shazier in the 2014 NFL Draft before he was drafted the pick before so Lee, who replaced Shazier at SAM linebacker for the Buckeyes, will likely be high on Dallas’ draft board.

30. ARIZONA CARDINALS (3-0): Andrew Billings, DT, Baylor: The Cardinals allowed former first-round pick Dan Williams to leave via free agency last offseason, losing a key piece to the run defense. Billings would provide a legitimate replacement at the nose as a tough two-down run stuffer.

31. NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS (3-0): Pick forfeited as part of Deflategate penalties.

32. GREEN BAY PACKERS (3-0): Jordan Jenkins, OLB, Georgia: With Nick Perry in a contract year and Julius Peppers getting long in the tooth, the Packers will be looking to upgrade at outside linebacker. Jenkins isn’t a quick-twitch mover, but he’s plenty athletic with the point of attack power to generate movement.


Taylor Decker is top 20 in both

by Pat, Right behind you, Wednesday, October 07, 2015, 19:53 @ BPH

Can't really complain about OL recruiting tough considering we've had back to back first round left tackles and an outside shot at three in a row if McGlinchey can make the transition next season. (Although I think he's right tackle all the way in the NFL, so 2nd or 3rd round might be his cap)


Heck, Bars might have first-round potential, too

by BPH, San Diego, Wednesday, October 07, 2015, 21:53 @ Pat

[ No text ]


I prefer looking ahead to 2017.

by nedhead, Wednesday, October 07, 2015, 16:07 @ Pat

What's really crazy about that, though, is that Cleveland is projected to have the 11th pick. No way that will happen!


You've had your face buried in Chinese meatballs this year.

by San Pedro, Thursday, October 08, 2015, 04:54 @ nedhead

The Browns are riding a journeyman QB to a 6 or 7 win season!


How is Christian Hackenberg still on these lists

by Jim (fisherj08) @, A Samoan kid's laptop, Wednesday, October 07, 2015, 10:06 @ Pat

[ No text ]


I suspect NFL people view Hackenberg as a tools guy

by hobbs, San Diego, Wednesday, October 07, 2015, 11:38 @ Jim (fisherj08)

who's smart and had shown development under a NFL level coach (BOB) and in an NFL system. Thus his production level fall under James Franklin doesn't scare them as much because they probably think that Franklin either hasn't put CH in the right system or he doesn't know how to develop pro set QB's.


It's not because he plays in the Northeast

by Greg, sittin on the dock of the bay, Wednesday, October 07, 2015, 10:52 @ Jim (fisherj08)

[ No text ]


#98 in the national passer rating list...

by KGB, Wednesday, October 07, 2015, 10:19 @ Jim (fisherj08)

...#12 in your draft-list hearts. And this comes against a diet of Temple (#106 in pass defense), Buffalo (#58), Rutgers (#109), San Diego State (#72) and Army (#87). Hackenburg has yet to complete more than 60% of his passes in any of those 5 games (he's at 52.8% overall) and his ypa stands at 6.6.

Any NFL GM who selects Hackenberg before the end of the third round in next spring's draft should be summarily shot in the face with a musket and relieved of duty via the nearest open dumpster.


You're mad

by hobbs, San Diego, Wednesday, October 07, 2015, 11:53 @ KGB
edited by hobbs, Wednesday, October 07, 2015, 12:10

no way, no how, Hackenberg lasts anywhere past #15. As you know the NFL is a QB driven league. Unless you have a franchise QB you're dead. Period. Thus teams will always overreach for QB's just so that they and the fans have "hope" that they've got the right guy to lead them for the next 12-15 years.

Off the top of my head here are teams that could/should go QB in rd 1 or at latest rd 2.

Houston Texas (coached by one Bill O'Brien)
Cleve (sell me on any of their Qb's being anything more than "a guy")
Saints (Brees is falling apart and maybe has one or two years left)
Bills (not sold on Tyrod)
Dallas (I love Romo but he's 35 and starting to break down. Hell I'll take anyone short of Golson so that I don't have to look at Weeden on a Dallas roster next year)
Broncos (This might be Peyton's last year. Then what?)

Now while those are the teams that could look at Qb probably only 3/4 go QB early (first two rounds). There simply are not 3/4 Qb's better in the draft than Hackenberg. J. Goff I get, but if you eliminate CH then Cardale Jones is the 2nd Qb off the board and there is simply no way in hell that I'm buying any NFL teams selecting Jones when Hackenberg is still on the board.

So summing this all up, while you might think CH has a 3rd rd grade the reality is QB is such a valuable position that teams will reach on QB's just to get someone in there who offers the franchise hope and possible stability at the most important position on the field for the next decade.

Also one other think, with more and more teams going to spread offenses a guy like Hackenberg who played under center and had to run an NFL offense is going to be viewed favorably.

As a Cowboy fan I'd be beyond ecstatic if they selected him in the first round. Sit him behind Romo for 2 years then let him take over. Honestly I think one of the big problems with QB development in the NFL is the rush to get guys on the field right away when they're not ready for the task.


I'm normal. It's everyone else who's f*cked in the head.

by KGB, Wednesday, October 07, 2015, 12:01 @ hobbs
edited by KGB, Wednesday, October 07, 2015, 12:05

Show me one All-Pro-caliber NFL quarterback in this era who put up comparable numbers in college -- just one.

You also mistakenly assume that NFL teams who don't have a great Qb situation will just throw their early picks at whoever is available. Although it certainly happens, history shows that many will defer or simply opt out if they don't like the pool of candidates.


Dear Mr. KGB

by Greg, sittin on the dock of the bay, Wednesday, October 07, 2015, 12:08 @ KGB

There are too many states these days. Please eliminate three. I am NOT a crackpot.


Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying you're wrong

by hobbs, San Diego, Wednesday, October 07, 2015, 12:08 @ KGB

although a 3rd rd grade does sound low (Haven's really seen CH play much this year beyond Temple), but the reality of the NFL is such that there is no way a guy who fits the NFL prototype, and had success in an NFL system under a future NFL coach (who likely will have a top 8 pick) lasts past the first day.

This is classic need exceeds supply territory.


That's right

by Geoff, Wednesday, October 07, 2015, 16:00 @ hobbs

NFL GMs are far more willing to reach on a "prototypical QB" than any other position.

Second, there aren't that many elite QBs. Maybe five? Less than 10? That means about 20 good to average QBs are starting in the league at any given time. That's about 20 teams who are "one franchise QB" away from competing for a Super Bowl.

Third, consider how many QB gurus there are in the league. Their pride makes them believe that can create NFL All Pros out of anyone.

CH looks like a prototypical QB. He's not great, but that doesn't matter. He'll probably be drafted in the second round.

Sometimes just looking like a QB is enough. Hell, Jay Cutler is still in the league.


I'd agree with you if Hackenberg were good

by HumanRobot @, Cybertron, Wednesday, October 07, 2015, 12:01 @ hobbs

[ No text ]


The Ryan Tannehill Memorial

by Jim (fisherj08) @, A Samoan kid's laptop, Wednesday, October 07, 2015, 10:26 @ KGB

"But He Looks Like a Quarterback!" draft pick.


Jake Locker, Christian Ponder, etc, etc, etc.

by KGB, Wednesday, October 07, 2015, 10:54 @ Jim (fisherj08)

For the record, that quote applies equally to Samantha Steele.


not only in the list, but @ #12!!!

by Costa Rican @, San Jose in beautiful Costa Rica, Wednesday, October 07, 2015, 10:24 @ KGB

[ No text ]


Only because he sometimes takes snaps under center

by Jack @, Wednesday, October 07, 2015, 10:12 @ Jim (fisherj08)

The league is getting desperate.


The biggest issue I see with this one (and other similar

by BillyGoat, At Thanksgiving with Joe Bethersontin, Wednesday, October 07, 2015, 10:04 @ Pat

ones) is that it doesn't account for nearly the number of small school players who work their way into the first couple rounds.



by Pat, Right behind you, Wednesday, October 07, 2015, 10:52 @ BillyGoat

These lists are less "Top 100 NFL Draft candidates" and more "Top 100 famous players at Power 5 schools"


Oh come on. No small school players make it big.

by Greg, sittin on the dock of the bay, Wednesday, October 07, 2015, 10:05 @ BillyGoat



Worked for Tom Brady, too.

by Joe ⌂ @, North Endzone Goal Line, Wednesday, October 07, 2015, 12:14 @ Greg

[ No text ]



by Tim, Chicago, IL, Wednesday, October 07, 2015, 12:29 @ Joe

[ No text ]


A guy from a small school leaping over the big boys? Never

by JN @, Seattle, Wednesday, October 07, 2015, 10:06 @ Greg



How many of the juniors will actually declare?

by Jack @, Wednesday, October 07, 2015, 10:03 @ Pat

I think Jaylon's a given, but what about the others?


I believe Stanley, Russell and Prosise all have 5th years

by Jeremy (WeIsND), Offices of Babip Pecota Vorp & Eckstein, Wednesday, October 07, 2015, 10:06 @ Jack

Tough to see either of the first two sticking around. Maybe if Russell's stock drops like a rock...

Prosise is an interesting case. He probably wasn't even thinking about leaving (maybe he still isn't), but of all of the guys with remaining eligibility, his decision would seem to be the easiest.

Fuller will need to continue producing at a high level because his performance against an elite CB vs. Clemson was less than stellar, and not a good audition on the big stage at all.


I think it's tough to see Russell leaving

by CK08, Wednesday, October 07, 2015, 12:00 @ Jeremy (WeIsND)

What has he done this year to merit a high draft grade?


Fuller is a true junior also. And thought Stanley is done

by Jack @, Wednesday, October 07, 2015, 10:08 @ Jeremy (WeIsND)

after this year.

He's no doubt gone regardless.


Stanley is fifth-year eligible. I think he played one snap

by BillyGoat, At Thanksgiving with Joe Bethersontin, Wednesday, October 07, 2015, 10:59 @ Jack

as a true freshman against Michigan in 2012 when somebody's helmet came off. Thereafter, he was "injured" (I forget what the official explanation was) and didn't play again.


Think Stanley had elbow surgery that offseason

by Jeremy (WeIsND), Offices of Babip Pecota Vorp & Eckstein, Wednesday, October 07, 2015, 11:20 @ BillyGoat

[ No text ]


Keivarae might want to start stepping his game up.

by Chris @, Raleigh, NC, Wednesday, October 07, 2015, 09:41 @ Pat

[ No text ]

"F--- everyone who isn't us."


At this point, it's hard to worry too much about either

by BillyGoat, At Thanksgiving with Joe Bethersontin, Wednesday, October 07, 2015, 11:45 @ Chris

Russell or Redfield leaving this year. But it's a win-win for us. If they step up and perform the remainder of this season at a level that earns them a high draft grade, we will have had a good season.

388453 Postings in 33582 Threads, 205 registered users, 145 users online (5 registered, 140 guests)
powered by my little forum