But students on "good socio-cultural" sports teams get caught cheating, too. Some of them probably get the boot and we're just not aware of it. Others just get away with it (I'm sure some football and basketball players get away with it, too).

I guess I'm trying to say there's some layers of the pipeline:

1) propensity/need to cheat
2) whether cheating is caught
3) punishment for caught cheating

#2 seems like it'd be invariant, but I guess some students want to be the ones that got a starting football player kicked out of school. #3 can vary based on #2 -- as I recall the Frozen 5 situation arose in a fairly high profile manner.

I'm concerned about the players who fail a class because they don't have the academic building blocks needed to succeed at ND. Swarbrick and Kelly are right to investigate how ND can better develop their study habits. But increased academic support doesn't mean that the work goes away.

The guys who cheat on a calc test because they feel invincible and don't want to bother putting in the time to study deserve to be tossed.

- No text -

ND is a tough place academically. So really, the entire student body is "at risk". Even the kids with 4.0 high school GPAs and perfect SAT scores are "at risk".

I'm pretty sure that the majority of the football players probably would not have been accepted to Notre Dame if not for their football talents. So it makes sense that they would be more vulnerable than most of the rest of the student body.

On the other hand, most regular students don't get the same level of academic support as the athletes. So, it almost, but not quite, balances out.

Unfortunately, most sports fans who are not ND fans are not going to view it that way. They are just going to see Kelly's comment as another piece of evidence that ND is no better than any other football factory, sinc even the head coach admits that the entire football team really doesn't qualify to be at Notre Dame.

I think he's describing changes that have already taken place (or are underway).

Similar thoughts on "transformative changes" were raised in the SI article: http://www.bluegraysky.com/forum/index.php?id=286867

You'd have liked for this to be a discussion that doesn't need ESPN as the mouthpiece.

But then again, I think the administration has probably been reluctant to budge on some matters. Hell, it took Kelly 9 months to actually sign his extension because he was concerned with issues in dealing with the leadership....

http://www.und.com/sports/m-footbl/recaps/090113aaf.html

Q. If you don't want to get into specifics, what elements in this are important to you? Are there elements that you really wanted to address that this does address for the next five years?

COACH KELLY: I just think the contract is one that has involved the leadership of the university. Obviously, Jack Swarbrick, Father Jenkins, we've all been in discussion about the future of the program. So when we come to an agreement, it's not necessarily that within it I get a lunch stipend on Tuesdays and Thursdays. It's about that we're all together in this contract about moving the program forward. Do you know what I mean? That we've all decided that by signing this contract, we're all in it together, and that's what I was looking for.

By my signature on it, Father Jenkins' signature on it and Jack Swarbrick's signature on it, we've all agreed that the principles within this contract is that we're all in it together, and our voices, the communication was the huge piece for me. That that dialogue is open, and that's what I was looking for.

That's an awful long time from when it was decided he was coming back in January.

While I'd like to believe this could have happened behind closed doors, another part of me remembers what it's like dealing with ND's administration and its stubbornness.

The reality is I don't think he's saying anything controversial. I don't think it's a too much of an ask allowing players to take 12 credit hours a semester. BillyGoat summarized the tension pretty well the other day... http://bluegraysky.com/forum/index.php?id=287867

academics.

We had players who cheated, too, way back in the 70's. I roomed with one. He cheated so much he bragged about it. And he got kicked out after freshman year before ever playing a down. I will also say that even if this guy was as honest as the day as long, he wouldn't have made it at ND anyway. He wasn't exactly with it academically and he smoked pot 5 times a day (we wondered who took his SATs for him).

Also, think of all the academic casualties in the Holtz years. Jason Cegielski. Jim Dadiotis. Norm Balentine. Boo Williams. Thomas Knight. Steve Misetic. And that's just off the top of my head. There were a lot more than just them.

Point being, they ARE busy, absolutely, but this isn't new!

I can't recall the last time Stanford had anybody academically ineligible. Although I think the "courses of interest" list had been dropped a few years ago:

http://www.sfgate.com/education/article/Stanford-drops-list-of-easy-classes-for-athlete...

A drama class in Beginning Improvising and another in Social Dances of North America III were among dozens of classes on a closely guarded quarterly list distributed only to Stanford athletes to help them choose classes.
The list, which has existed since at least 2001, was widely regarded by athletes as an easy class list. More than a quarter of the courses on the list did not fulfill university general education requirements.
The classes on the list were "always chock-full of athletes and very easy A's," said Kira Maker, a soccer player who used the list her freshman year.
Stanford officials say the list was designed to accommodate athletes' demanding schedules and have disputed that it was made up of easy courses. But officials discontinued it last week after reporters began asking about it.

Titled "Courses of Interest," the list was distributed by the Athletic Academic Resource Center. Advisers in other university departments said they were unaware such a list existed.
Stanford has long mandated equal scholastic footing among all undergraduates, including athletes. Many of its student athletes, in fact, have distinguished themselves in the classroom, notably football stars Andrew Luck, who has a 3.5 GPA, and Owen Marecic, who plans to graduate this year with a degree in human biology.
The university's hard-line approach has rankled some coaches over the years who have watched talented recruits go elsewhere because they didn't measure up to Stanford's academic standards.
But some faculty and students say the list may have offered an academic advantage for the athletes who requested it - especially since the general population was unaware it was available.
Austin Lee, director of academic services at the Athletic Academic Resource Center, disagreed that the classes were easier than others at Stanford.
"An objective evaluation of the courses included on the list reveals several courses that most students would consider to be academically rigorous," Lee said. He did not identify specific classes.
Compiled by advisers

Lee said the center's four advisers compiled the list to help student athletes find introductory classes that fit into constrained time schedules and fulfilled general education requirements. Afternoon practices mean that athletes have to choose classes that start from 9 a.m. to 1:15 p.m. The list mostly contained classes during those hours.
Nearly 200 courses in 16 academic departments and programs offered during the 9 a.m. to 1:15 p.m. time slots were left off the list.
Sociology Professor Cecilia Ridgeway was surprised her Interpersonal Relations class was on the winter quarter list. Ridgeway said she had heard about the document in years past and talked to the athletics department about removing her class from the list. She said department staff told her at the time that the list did not exist.
Like many professors whose courses are on the list, Ridgeway said her class is academically challenging, noting that she has failed some student athletes - to the displeasure of the athletics department.
Other professors were unconcerned that their class made it onto the list. Some said they believed student athletes should be treated differently than the typical student.
"(Stanford) accommodates athletes in the manner that they accommodate students with disabilities," said Donald Barr, who teaches a Social Class, Race, Ethnicity, Health course, which was highlighted by resource center advisers.
Lythcott-Haims said any student could have obtained a copy of the document, which was available only in hard copy from the offices of the Athletic Academic Resource Center.
Purpose of list

Lee and Lythcott-Haims said the list was meant to serve as the beginning of an advising conversation.
"We're not handing it out and distributing it all around," Lythcott-Haims said.
But student athletes said they had picked up a copy of the list and left. In some cases, no advising took place.
"Literally, when you walk into the (resource center) right next to the door, it's right there," said Ryan Sudeck, a junior on the crew team.
"I never used it before this year," he said. "But this quarter it was like, 'Oh, I need an easy class to boost my GPA.' "

Not untrue strictly speaking, just a lot of connotations.

and made the salient point that it's not that his players can't hack it in the classroom -- they can -- it's just that they probably couldn't get into the school under a normal application. And that's fine, by the way. The ND application is ultra-competitive -- 18,000 applications submitted last year -- but that doesn't mean the bulk of the applicants couldn't do the classwork and graduate. And those with heavy extra-curricular schedules (like athletes) might need some additional academic support. Also fine.