David Shaw on players "starving"

by Jay ⌂, San Diego, Friday, July 25, 2014, 09:28 (3555 days ago)

He nicely sums up my opinion as well, and what should be the opinion of any ND fan.

http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/stanford-s-david-shaw-offers-strong-wor...

It's not difficult to be on the right side of this issue.

by KGB, Belly o. the Beast, Saturday, July 26, 2014, 06:14 (3554 days ago) @ Jay
edited by KGB, Saturday, July 26, 2014, 06:17

At least it shouldn't be. I am consistently flabbergasted by presumably-intelligent people who think that throwing money at college athletes is the right thing to do. As opposed to the schools simply providing them the legitimate fucking education that they promised and lied about during the recruiting process, along with the tools to help them achieve on and off the field. To instead open the other can of worms and wrestle with questions about who to pay and how much and where the money comes from is madness. If you want pay-for-play at this level, fine, but let's hold the NFL's feet to the fire on building that out as a separate model. In the current system, we already have the established framework of football teams with actual by-God universities attached to them (!), so maybe we could stick to swapping exploits on the field for schooling, because that shit costs more than a $400 per diem and a fucking ham sandwich. Again, it's sad that a whole fuck-ton of people who presumably either went to college or put kids through it or whatever else ignore the fantastic financial benefit of getting it for free.

I'm not a fan of Shaw's at all, but I think he articulated

by scriptcomesfirst @, Friday, July 25, 2014, 14:38 (3555 days ago) @ Jay

something here that A. is an extremely important point, and B. I've not seen articulated as clearly from any other coach.

"It's our job to teach them how to make a living at the university and not to give them their living at the university."

Great points. Especially re: responsibility.

by ReginaldVelJohnson @, Friday, July 25, 2014, 14:19 (3555 days ago) @ Jay

If you blow your food allowance on Doritos and beer, why is that the University's problem. Many other college kids learn how to not do that, so why shouldn't the athletes?

and why do ND fans dislike this guy so much?

by JD in Portland @, Portland OR, Friday, July 25, 2014, 12:02 (3555 days ago) @ Jay

And even more strange, how does anyone not believe he's doing a great job at Stanford and will continue to?
I'm so tired of reading about his imminent collapse (not here but).
My take: Good man doing a really good job.

mostly from ND game stuff

by Jay ⌂, San Diego, Friday, July 25, 2014, 12:18 (3555 days ago) @ JD in Portland

He came off like a douche after the 2012 game, for one example.

Agree he's doing a fine job at a place with even more built-in restrictions than ND. And he's 100% right on the big picture stuff. Kelly has echoed similar thoughts on the student-athlete conundrum but not at the same volume that Shaw has. I sort of wish he would. We should be leading the charge on this.

I'm not sure I agree Stanford has more built-in....

by PMan @, The Banks of the Spokane River, Friday, July 25, 2014, 14:00 (3555 days ago) @ Jay

restrictions. Maybe on the front end in admissions, but certainly not once the student-athletes are in school.

But the front end admissions is the much larger hurdle

by Jack @, Friday, July 25, 2014, 17:01 (3555 days ago) @ PMan

Once you're into either school, if Stanford is like ND , and I suspect it is, you have to almost try to flunk out.

Actually, you can not fail a class at Stanford.

by PMan @, The Banks of the Spokane River, Friday, July 25, 2014, 17:41 (3555 days ago) @ Jack

Well, except we can only offer Catholic players

by scriptcomesfirst @, Friday, July 25, 2014, 14:34 (3555 days ago) @ PMan

Which significantly limits our talent pool.

At least that's what a high school player just told me the other day. Buckeye fan.

His whiny comments after the 2012 game

by PootND ⌂ @, New Jersey, Friday, July 25, 2014, 12:13 (3555 days ago) @ JD in Portland

The deification of him and how Stanford plays MANBALL by certain segments of the fanbase & CFB media

interesting that D'Antonio whined as much or more

by JD in Portland @, Portland OR, Friday, July 25, 2014, 13:02 (3555 days ago) @ PootND

after ND loss, but doesn't seem to draw the same ire.
If Kelly were to leave, I'd take Shaw in a second, though i seriously doubt he'd be interested.

I don't like either that much

by PootND ⌂ @, New Jersey, Friday, July 25, 2014, 14:27 (3555 days ago) @ JD in Portland

Respect Dantonio as a coach more mainly what he has achieved/how he's built Sparty up.

Shaw still has some things to prove to me because his play calling last year was very shaky at crucial times.

Most people seem to like D'Antonio a great deal.

by Chris @, Raleigh, NC, Friday, July 25, 2014, 13:18 (3555 days ago) @ JD in Portland

I find him to be a smug douche.
I'm much more neutral on Shaw and another season like the last 3 and I just might have to start giving him the respect he seems to deserve.
That said, I would not want him in South Bend.
For all his MANBALL ways, his playcalling is shaky, at best.
And hopefully now that Kelly has his RKG QBs, I won't be thinking that about him anymore.

--
"F--- everyone who isn't us."
#Team128

Agree with both of those

by Greg, seemingly ranch, Friday, July 25, 2014, 12:19 (3555 days ago) @ PootND

Also, viewed as having taken what Harbaugh built up and run with it, essentially not screwing it up but really not doing much to advance it. That last one ebbs with each passing year and his sustained level of performance. But I think it's a pretty real reason that people didn't like him at the start.

--
The 2007 ND-UCLA game was a once in a lifetime experience, I hope

My thoughts exactly

by Jeff (BGS) @, A starter home in suburban Tempe, Friday, July 25, 2014, 18:03 (3555 days ago) @ Greg

Dantonio has done more building and more sustaining at MSU than Shaw has at Stanford.

All that plus the nonsense TED Talk

by CW (Rakes) @, Harlan County, Friday, July 25, 2014, 12:17 (3555 days ago) @ PootND

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That only works if the NCAA insists that kids go to class

by Jim (fisherj08) @, A Samoan kid's laptop, Friday, July 25, 2014, 10:28 (3555 days ago) @ Jay

the NCAA has no interest in policing that arena, unfortunately.

"Let's hold the universities accountable."

by nedhead, Friday, July 25, 2014, 20:12 (3555 days ago) @ Jim (fisherj08)

I agree with you. I think Shaw's general points are perfectly valid, and especially so at expensive universities. But in the present system, universities/conferences/athletes are not held accountable for education, with few exceptions (ND, Rice, Stanford, Vandy, and probably a few others).

So then IMO, either like-minded people need to figure out a way to hold universities accountable, or to deal with the reality that universities are not accountable. And if universities are not held accountable, I think paying players is the most responsible outcome.

My only quibble with his thoughts is "amateurism".

by PAK, Friday, July 25, 2014, 10:21 (3555 days ago) @ Jay

The NCAA's definition of amateurism is and has long been far more restrictive than any other definition in the world.

Now, should everything be opened like the former Olympic-style amateurism, where the athletes could market themselves however they want provided they didn't get paid to actually play the game? No, I would disagree with that sentiment. But there's also quite a bit of room to maneuver between those two extremes.

I come back to this every time one of these threads pops up: I added it up one day and I made over $15k between work study and internships while I was in college, and I was in the class of '00. If the NCAA's rules are going to be strict enough that it makes coaches discourage their players from getting jobs (and they are, ever since Oklahoma got busted for letting players take no-show jobs) then I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that the players should get a couple thousand dollars a semester.

Given the way the money has exploded around college athletics over the last few years, I reject the idea that finding a way to get that kind of money to all college athletes is impossible.

Is there an impediment to setting up a central fund?

by CK08, Friday, July 25, 2014, 10:32 (3555 days ago) @ PAK

Require all entities that receive money to televise college sports to pay into the fund, and then pay all athletes a yearly stipend out of it, with the amount of the stipend varying based on how often their sport (including gender and division) is on TV?

It seems to me that the NCAA could do something like that, or the member schools could get together and create the organization themselves.

I also feel like something similar could happen with video game revenue.

I agree with every word he said

by CK08, Friday, July 25, 2014, 09:55 (3555 days ago) @ Jay

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Bravo

by Greg, seemingly ranch, Friday, July 25, 2014, 09:43 (3555 days ago) @ Jay

Stanford -- and Shaw -- have it right. We need to align with schools like them if amateurism is to survive.

--
The 2007 ND-UCLA game was a once in a lifetime experience, I hope

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