the Polo Grounds

Back to the forum index
Linear

Big Ten and SEC on TV in 2009

by LaFortune Teller ⌂ @, South Bend, Friday, May 14, 2010, 10:15

By request, I'm posting a new thread for this data.

Big Ten teams played 44 conference games last season:
27 were on the ABC/ESPN family of networks:
3 - ABC
7 - ABC/ESPN (split depending on region)
2 - ABC/ESPN2 (split depending on region)
9 - ESPN
5 - ESPN2
1 - ESPN Classic
17 were on the Big Ten Network

Big Ten teams were the hosts of 34 non-conference games last season:
12 were on the ABC/ESPN family of networks:
1 - ABC
2 - ABC/ESPN2 (split depending on region)
6 - ESPN
2 - ESPN2
1 - ESPN Classic
22 were on the Big Ten Network

If we divide the Big Ten's TV deals by years and then by games ...

ABC/ESPN paid $2.56 million each for 39 games in 2009
Big Ten Network paid $2.87 million each for 39 games in 2009*
(This isn't fair to calculate the BTN deal since the BTN shows much much more programming than just 39 football games. On the other hand, those other sports called non-revenue for a reason).

***

SEC teams played 48 conference games and one conference championship in 2009:
14 - CBS (including SEC championship)
9 - ESPN
6 - ESPN2
6 - ESPNU
14 were on regionally (possibly carried/supported by ESPN)

SEC teams hosted 39 non-conference games last season:
1 - CBS
2 - ESPN
2 - ESPN2
1 - ESPN Classic
9 - ESPNU
14 were on regionally (possibly carried/supported by ESPN)
9 were on Pay-Per-View
1 was untelevised

If we divide the SEC's TV deals by years and then by games ...

CBS paid $3.66 million each for 15 games in 2009
ESPN paid either...
$4.29 million each for 35 games
or (more likely)...
$2.38 million each for 63 games (if we count the regional stuff as theirs)
or somewhere in between

Tags:
expansion, television

locked
  660 views

Another important point w/r/t TV and scheduling

by LaFortune Teller ⌂ @, South Bend, Friday, May 14, 2010, 18:06 @ LaFortune Teller

Note that these lucrative TV contracts with the Big Ten and SEC were signed relatively recently. Note also the distribution of total non-conference games hosted by the Big Ten and SEC respectively versus those played on the road last year:
Big Ten - 34 home, 10 road
SEC - 35 home , 9 road
And note that every single home game played by these conferences was broadcast and paid for by the ABC/ESPN, BTN, or CBS contracts, and that each game was valued at least $2 million each.

It might not just be the teams/programs themselves that want home-heavy schedules for ticket and hot dog sales or paving an easier road to a bowl game. There might be tremendous pressure from the league (if it isn't outright spelled out in the network contracts) to not schedule too many home and homes. The individual home game against ND might be worth it to Alabama to sacrifice a road game in return, but is it worth it to the SEC? To CBS? To ESPN?

locked
  525 views

"bookmarked" this thread, btw

by Jay ⌂, San Diego, Friday, May 14, 2010, 11:27 @ LaFortune Teller

[ No text ]

locked
  521 views

btw, thanks for the numbers

by Jay ⌂, San Diego, Friday, May 14, 2010, 10:40 @ LaFortune Teller

Here's a little something, you know, for the effort.

[image]

locked
  561 views

Thanks for the links. And thanks to Jeff for the TV ratings.

by LaFortune Teller ⌂ @, South Bend, Friday, May 14, 2010, 11:36 @ Jay

[ No text ]

locked
  509 views

I think this would make a very interesting powerpoint

by Jay ⌂, San Diego, Friday, May 14, 2010, 11:37 @ LaFortune Teller

[ No text ]

locked
  523 views

by comparison, NBC

by Jay ⌂, San Diego, Friday, May 14, 2010, 10:20 @ LaFortune Teller

If we value the contract between $9 million and $12 million (due to go up to $15 million), in 2009 we had 7 games at $1.28-$1.71 million per game ($2.14 at a $15 million contract).

I realize this is just an initial, perhaps superficial analysis, but are we getting hosed?

locked
  577 views

Are the CBS games more than twice as valuable as NBC games?

by LaFortune Teller ⌂ @, South Bend, Friday, May 14, 2010, 10:51 @ Jay
edited by LaFortune Teller, Friday, May 14, 2010, 11:10

CBS in 2009 (paying the SEC $3.66 million per game):
9/19 Tennessee at Florida
9/26 Arkansas at Alabama
10/3 LSU at Georgia
10/10 Florida at LSU
10/10 Alabama at Ole Miss
10/17 Arkansas at Florida
10/24 Tennessee at Alabama
10/31 Florida vs. Georgia
11/7 LSU at Alabama
11/14 Tennessee at Ole Miss
11/14 Florida at South Carolina
11/21 LSU at Ole Miss
11/27 Alabama at Auburn
11/28 Florida State at Florida
12/5 Alabama vs. Florida (SEC Championship)

NBC in 2009 (paying ND around $1.5 million per game):
9/5 Nevada at ND
9/19 Michigan State at ND
10/3 Washington at ND
10/17 USC at ND
10/24 Boston College at ND
10/31 ND vs. Washington State
11/7 Navy at ND
11/21 Connecticut at ND

locked
  582 views

Here are the TV ratings for these games

by LaFortune Teller ⌂ @, South Bend, Friday, May 14, 2010, 11:08 @ LaFortune Teller

CBS in 2009 (paying the SEC $3.66 million per game):
4.3 - 9/19 Tennessee at Florida
2.4 - 9/26 Arkansas at Alabama
3.5 - 10/3 LSU at Georgia
6.1 - 10/10 Florida at LSU
3.1 - 10/10 Alabama at Ole Miss
4.3 - 10/17 Arkansas at Florida
3.6 - 10/24 Tennessee at Alabama
4.4 - 10/31 Florida vs. Georgia
4.3 - 11/7 LSU at Alabama
2.2 - 11/14 Tennessee at Ole Miss
4.0 - 11/14 Florida at South Carolina
2.9 - 11/21 LSU at Ole Miss
4.9 - 11/27 Alabama at Auburn
4.7 - 11/28 Florida State at Florida
11.1 - 12/5 Alabama vs. Florida (SEC Championship)

NBC in 2009 (paying ND around $1.5 million per game):
1.3 - 9/5 Nevada at ND
2.7 - 9/19 Michigan State at ND
2.9 - 10/3 Washington at ND
4.1 - 10/17 USC at ND
2.2 - 10/24 Boston College at ND
1.4 - 10/31 ND vs. Washington State
1.9 - 11/7 Navy at ND
2.2 - 11/21 Connecticut at ND

I think the payouts are completely justified.

locked
  598 views

grouped & ranked (updated)

by Jay ⌂, San Diego, Friday, May 14, 2010, 11:25 @ LaFortune Teller
edited by Jay, Friday, May 14, 2010, 11:31

ND games are starred for easy reference. ND road games included.

11.1	 12/5 Alabama vs. Florida (SEC Championship)
6.1	 10/10 Florida at LSU
5.1 *	 9/12 ND at Michigan (ABC)
4.9	 11/27 Alabama at Auburn
4.7	 11/28 Florida State at Florida
4.5 *	 11/28 ND at Stanford (ABC)
4.4	 10/31 Florida vs. Georgia
4.3	 9/19 Tennessee at Florida
4.3	 10/17 Arkansas at Florida
4.3	 11/7 LSU at Alabama
4.1 *	 10/17 USC at ND
4.0	 11/14 Florida at South Carolina
3.7 *	 11/14 ND at Pittsburgh (ABC)
3.6	 10/24 Tennessee at Alabama
3.5	 10/3 LSU at Georgia
3.1	 10/10 Alabama at Ole Miss
2.9	 11/21 LSU at Ole Miss
2.9 *	 10/3 Washington at ND
2.7 *	 9/19 Michigan State at ND
2.4	 9/26 Arkansas at Alabama
2.2	 11/14 Tennessee at Ole Miss
2.2 *	 10/24 Boston College at ND
2.2 *	 11/21 Connecticut at ND
1.9 *	 11/7 Navy at ND
1.8 *	 9/26 ND at Purdue (ESPN)
1.4 *	 10/31 ND vs. Washington State
1.3 *	 9/5 Nevada at ND
locked
  574 views

Were those the only CBS games last year?

by Joe (LBbeachrat) @, Los Angeles, CA, Friday, May 14, 2010, 11:40 @ Jay

Where were all the other SEC games televised, and how much income did they generate?

BTW, I think all of this information is great. The one thing we are seeing is that every ND game was televised (albeit with many of them having quite low ratings). Contrast that with a large percentage of SEC games either not televised or only regionally.

locked
  536 views

Army/Navy was the only other game on CBS last year.

by LaFortune Teller ⌂ @, South Bend, Friday, May 14, 2010, 12:03 @ Joe (LBbeachrat)

It drew a 3.7 rating on December 12th.

locked
  511 views

seems like CBS and ABC do better than NBC

by HumanRobot @, Cybertron, Friday, May 14, 2010, 12:15 @ LaFortune Teller

I'm guessing it's a combination of

1) Better games (they don't have to show any non-BCS vs SEC match-ups). ND can address this by scheduling better opponents (BCS opponents seem to ensure good ratings) and getting better themselves.
2) Better promotion of said games (Army/Navy is a clunker from a pure football wattage standpoint, but certainly an "armed forces bowl" is a compelling story). I'll have to admit I don't see much promotion of ND football during the week on NBC.
3) Better production value.

locked
  507 views

Re: production values and promotion

by LaFortune Teller ⌂ @, South Bend, Friday, May 14, 2010, 12:22 @ HumanRobot

This might be a chicken/egg thing, but NBC is paying ND half of what CBS is paying the SEC per game. They're getting half the ratings share. And let's say they're putting about half the effort/resources into promotion and production.

Which factors are driving the others? I mean, I'm sure NBC would love to get 4.0-5.0 ratings for ND vs. Boston College, but beyond a dream of being #1 in any given time slot, maybe the production/promotion/rights fees actually suggest that they aren't trying to get 4.0-5.0 ratings and that they're perfectly happy with what they're getting, eight times per year.

Should we (ND) be happy with that? No, probably not.

locked
  532 views

I'm guessing we'll see a significant increase

by Joe (LBbeachrat) @, Los Angeles, CA, Friday, May 14, 2010, 12:42 @ LaFortune Teller

in ratings share this year, due to the quality of product on the field. That won't necessarily mean any other improvements will follow...

locked
  506 views

If I had the time, I would do a Chart Friday chart

by JRT, Island of Misfit Toys, Friday, May 14, 2010, 13:16 @ Joe (LBbeachrat)

showing TV ratings by coach's years of tenure at ND over the past 13 years.

Year 1 would be very high, and I'm guessing it would slide all the way to 5 (I suppose 4 could be higher than 3).

locked
  504 views

Chart Friday

by LaFortune Teller ⌂ @, South Bend, Friday, May 14, 2010, 13:21 @ JRT

[image]
Not mine, it's from the blog where all the TV ratings data came from:
http://sportsmediawatch.blogspot.com/2009/12/college-football-numbers-game.html

locked
  530 views

We need to push them on #2

by Greg, the 'Dena, Friday, May 14, 2010, 12:19 @ HumanRobot

NBC has decent ratings for its Sunday Night Football. We need to get 10 minutes of the pregame as a recap of "NBC's Other Significant Weekly Sports Broadcast". Heck, ND pregame is practically an informercial for NBC's other sports broadcasts; we need reciprocity.

Also need some marketing during the week -- the same way NBC markets its other content. A couple Thursday night plugs; and some targeted ads during shows that fit the 18-35 demographic. I think the older folks already know where to find us.

I agree with you on #3, too; we need to get better production -- similar to Sunday Night Football -- to capture the casual audience.

locked
  529 views

Get them to eat more fiber?

by Jeff (BGS), A starter home in suburban Tempe, Friday, May 14, 2010, 13:12 @ Greg

[ No text ]

locked
  468 views

Florida was money in the bank. Suprised Tebow didn't

by LaFortune Teller ⌂ @, South Bend, Friday, May 14, 2010, 11:29 @ Jay

overturn the tables of the money-changers and drive everyone out of the temple.

locked
  533 views

ND's road game TV ratings:

by LaFortune Teller ⌂ @, South Bend, Friday, May 14, 2010, 11:12 @ LaFortune Teller

5.1 - 9/12 ND at Michigan (ABC)
1.8 - 9/26 ND at Purdue (ESPN)
3.7 - 11/14 ND at Pittsburgh (ABC)
4.5 - 11/28 ND at Stanford (ABC)

locked
  556 views

something that occured to me

by HumanRobot @, Cybertron, Friday, May 14, 2010, 11:18 @ LaFortune Teller

I think that if ND wanted a better deal with NBC, that they will have to capitulate on night games. I can't imagine that Pitt was all that much more of a compelling opponent than UConn (3.7 versus 2.2) or that Stanford was a more compelling opponent than USC (4.5 versus 4.1). I'm also surprised that UM game was such a high number, considering it was a 3:30 start. Was it the only good game that early in the season?

locked
  533 views

When we're at home, there's a good game on elsewhere.

by LaFortune Teller ⌂ @, South Bend, Friday, May 14, 2010, 11:20 @ HumanRobot

When we're on the road, we're not competing for college football eyeballs (or at least fewer) because we are almost always a national game.

locked
  566 views

the ND-UM game rating jumps out at you

by Jay ⌂, San Diego, Friday, May 14, 2010, 11:36 @ LaFortune Teller

That was an afternoon game (although it was early in the season, and I think the only other compelling game that day was at night, USC-OSU). Still, it's good to see the power of the brand when there is still hope in the season.

locked
  558 views

It was also a noon game.

by KGB, Friday, May 14, 2010, 11:49 @ Jay

And generally there's no other network game at that time -- particularly something in the form of SEC competition -- opposing the ABC broadcast. I remember watching at a tailgate, and the only worthwhile game to flip over to was Wisconsin-Fresno State on ESPN.

locked
  522 views

It was at 3:30 pm

by Sherman Oaks, California, Friday, May 14, 2010, 12:11 @ KGB

[ No text ]

locked
  492 views

Hrrmmm. That tailgate must have been better than I remember.

by KGB, Friday, May 14, 2010, 14:19 @ Sherman Oaks

Your point about CBS obviously stands, because the game was essentially unopposed.

locked
  503 views

No CBS game that week due to the US Open

by Sherman Oaks, California, Friday, May 14, 2010, 11:46 @ Jay

That didn't hurt ratings, either.

Likewise, CBS had no prime time games opposite the Pitt or Stanford games, and ESPN's games in that slot were not particularly attractive (hence ABC's decision to show ND instead).

locked
  514 views

also, there's the power of marketing

by Jay ⌂, San Diego, Friday, May 14, 2010, 11:40 @ Jay

I have no doubt ND-Michigan got more mentions (and to a wider audience) in the week(s) leading up to it than most or all of the NBC-based games.

locked
  533 views

I would think our audience probably

by JRT, Island of Misfit Toys, Friday, May 14, 2010, 11:57 @ Jay

halves with each of our first two losses, if you could control for everything else.

locked
  502 views

That's especially powerful with the ABC/ESPN relationship

by LaFortune Teller ⌂ @, South Bend, Friday, May 14, 2010, 11:51 @ Jay

On September 12th, there were only two nationally-televised games in the afternoon, ND/Michigan (5.2 rating on ABC) and UCLA/Tennessee (1.9 rating on ESPN). CBS did not have a game.

On November 28th, there were only two nationally-televised games at night, ND/Stanford (4.5 rating on ABC) and Arkansas/LSU (2.3 on ESPN). CBS did not have a night game -- the Florida/FSU afternoon game was the highest rated game of the day (4.7).

locked
  531 views

Even more striking is ND at Stanford vs. USC at ND.

by Joe (LBbeachrat) @, Los Angeles, CA, Friday, May 14, 2010, 11:42 @ Jay

ND at Stanford was later in the (dismal) season than USC, but drew better on ABC than ND/USC on NBC.

locked
  528 views

Thanksgiving weekend with no competition

by Greg, the 'Dena, Friday, May 14, 2010, 11:48 @ Joe (LBbeachrat)

At least, no real competition. That's the recipe for a big TV number.

locked
  527 views

ND-Stanford was really the only thing on

by Jay ⌂, San Diego, Friday, May 14, 2010, 11:47 @ Joe (LBbeachrat)

http://www.mattsarzsports.com/2009/week13.aspx

ABC also had Georgia-GT on the simulcast but I'm sure the coverage area was much smaller. Also, it was Thanksgiving weekend so a lot of people were at home.

locked
  535 views

ND-Stanford to 74% of the country, UGA-GT to 26%

by Sherman Oaks, California, Friday, May 14, 2010, 12:54 @ Jay

with reverse-mirror on ESPN. HDSportsGuide.com is my friend.

http://www.hdsportsguide.com/news/2009/abcespn2-coverage-map-for-november-28-800-pm-games/

locked
  526 views

Good catch. We should adjust the ratings accordingly.

by LaFortune Teller ⌂ @, South Bend, Friday, May 14, 2010, 12:59 @ Sherman Oaks

I believe the ND/Pitt game was a split broadcast as well. From the ratings data I have, I think the posted ratings for those games probably account for the total rating from both games on ABC. Maybe they account for the total rating from both games on both ABC and ESPN?

locked
  513 views

This link seems to have all the 2009 coverage maps

by Sherman Oaks, California, Friday, May 14, 2010, 13:25 @ LaFortune Teller

ND-Pitt was shown to 83% of the country, TTU-Okie State to 17%. No reverse mirror.

http://www.hdsportsguide.com/news/2009/abc-coverage-map/

locked
  516 views

Another great point

by Greg, the 'Dena, Friday, May 14, 2010, 11:23 @ LaFortune Teller

You and the robot are on fire with this stuff.

locked
  520 views

That's a great read

by Greg, the 'Dena, Friday, May 14, 2010, 11:20 @ HumanRobot

I was trying to figure out the Stanford-SC issue, and that is a fantastic analysis of it.

locked
  498 views

this is f*cking great stuff (edited)

by Jay ⌂, San Diego, Friday, May 14, 2010, 11:09 @ LaFortune Teller

And look at that-- ha! My guess at what was the least compelling SEC game was right.

locked
  544 views

If I did a lumping...

by HumanRobot @, Cybertron, Friday, May 14, 2010, 10:59 @ LaFortune Teller

It would be something like

Marquee Games

12/5 Alabama vs. Florida
10/31 Florida vs. Georgia
10/24 Tennessee at Alabama
11/7 LSU at Alabama
11/28 Florida State at Florida
10/10 Florida at LSU
9/19 Tennessee at Florida
USC at ND

Good Games

9/19 Michigan State at ND
10/3 Washington at ND
10/24 Boston College at ND
11/21 Connecticut at ND
9/26 Arkansas at Alabama
10/3 LSU at Georgia
10/10 Alabama at Ole Miss
10/17 Arkansas at Florida
11/14 Tennessee at Ole Miss
11/14 Florida at South Carolina
11/21 LSU at Ole Miss
11/27 Alabama at Auburn

Tomato Cans

9/5 Nevada at ND
10/31 ND vs. Washington State
11/7 Navy at ND

I think I was even being a bit generous to ND there. I put games I think would have had a lot of national interest as the Marquee games. Looks to me like CBS gets a pretty good deal, no?

locked
  538 views

we could check the ratings to confirm

by Jay ⌂, San Diego, Friday, May 14, 2010, 11:00 @ HumanRobot

[ No text ]

locked
  527 views

Are the BTN games more/as valuable than our NBC games?

by LaFortune Teller ⌂ @, South Bend, Friday, May 14, 2010, 10:56 @ LaFortune Teller

Big Ten Network games in 2009 (allegedly valued at greater than ND per-game value last year):

Michigan State at Illinois
Ohio State at Indiana
Illinois at Indiana
Wisconsin at Indiana
Purdue at Indiana
Purdue at Michigan
Michigan at Michigan State
Iowa at Michigan State
Michigan State at Minnesota
Illinois at Minnesota
Minnesota at Northwestern
Indiana at Northwestern
Wisconsin at Northwestern
Indiana at Penn State
Northwestern at Purdue
Ohio State at Purdue
Michigan at Wisconsin

Illinois State at Illinois
Wofford at Wisconsin
Western Michigan at Indiana
Eastern Kentucky at Indiana
Northern Iowa at Iowa
Eastern Michigan at Michigan
Delaware State at Michigan
Western Michigan at Michigan State
Montana State at Michigan State
Air Force at Minnesota
South Dakota State at Minnesota
Eastern Michigan at Northwestern
Miami (OH) at Northwestern
Towson at Northwestern
New Mexico State at Ohio State
Akron at Penn State
Syracuse at Penn State

locked
  550 views

wow that sucks

by HumanRobot @, Cybertron, Friday, May 14, 2010, 11:02 @ LaFortune Teller

I don't think any of the interconference games compare to ND vs. USC. Only one of any real interest:

Michigan at Michigan State

and maybe a few of those OSU games.

locked
  530 views

Delaware State @ Michigan was probably not

by Jay ⌂, San Diego, Friday, May 14, 2010, 10:57 @ LaFortune Teller

[ No text ]

locked
  513 views

You'd have to pay me $1.5 million to watch those games again

by KGB, Friday, May 14, 2010, 10:55 @ LaFortune Teller

[ No text ]

locked
  518 views

I think so, yes

by Jay ⌂, San Diego, Friday, May 14, 2010, 10:53 @ LaFortune Teller

Even the crummiest CBS matchup (maybe Ole Miss versus Tennessee) is more compelling than just about every one of our games. Of course the "compelling" factor relies on the current prominence of Florida and Alabama.

locked
  533 views

Kevin White "negotiated" the most recent NBC contract

by Sherman Oaks, California, Friday, May 14, 2010, 10:23 @ Jay

Need I say more?

locked
  525 views

Do we share our NBC revenue with the other team?

by Greg, the 'Dena, Friday, May 14, 2010, 10:22 @ Jay

If not, then you have to halve the numbers for ABC/ESPN and CBS, because those are per-game numbers and are split between the participating teams while our number is just what we make.

locked
  529 views

This isn't a revenue-sharing or per-team profit analysis.

by LaFortune Teller ⌂ @, South Bend, Friday, May 14, 2010, 10:36 @ Greg

It's an analysis of the value of games themselves to the networks.

locked
  555 views

OK

by Greg, the 'Dena, Friday, May 14, 2010, 11:07 @ LaFortune Teller
edited by Greg, Friday, May 14, 2010, 11:11

Then I would say that, from a revenue standpoint, our product has not been much of an advertising magnet. And NBC has to dedicated personnel and equipment to our product (rather than being able to share the costs among many contracts), so there are some overhead costs that have to be paid out of ND ad revenue that can be spread out more for ABC/ESPN (and even CBS).

Further, while I think these values are pretty much on-point with the last negotiations, future negotiations based on revenues could change.

EDIT: and per your post above, I think that they're totally justified.

locked
  525 views

I seem to recall we pay a fee to one-offs

by Jay ⌂, San Diego, Friday, May 14, 2010, 10:34 @ Greg

but don't share in a home-and-home arrangement.

I have no idea how the other conference contracts arrange payouts. I assume that when it's an intra-conference matchup it really doesn't matter.

locked
  544 views
374418 Postings in 32689 Threads, 204 registered users, 100 users online (7 registered, 93 guests)
Contact
powered by my little forum