You're on the committee!
Give me your Final Four for this season, seeded. Florida State will be the clear #1 seed, so also give me your rationale on the other 3 and why you seeded them where you did. If you want to explain why you left out certain teams, you can do that too.
Here's a cheat sheet on potential selections:
If you want, you can pretend you're one of the *actual* committee members! I'm calling dibs on Alvarez.
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Jeff Long, vice chancellor and director of athletics at University of Arkansas
Barry Alvarez, director of athletics at University of Wisconsin
Lieutenant General Mike Gould, former superintendent of the United States Air Force Academy
Pat Haden, director of athletics at University of Southern California
Tom Jernstedt, former NCAA executive vice president
Oliver Luck, director of athletics at West Virginia University
Archie Manning , former Ole Miss quarterback and All-Pro NFL quarterback
Tom Osborne, director of athletics at University of Nebraska
Dan Radakovich, director of athletics at Clemson University
Condoleezza Rice, former United States Secretary of State
Mike Tranghese, former commissioner of the Big East Conference
Steve Wieberg, former college football reporter for USA Today
Tyrone Willingham, former head coach at three different FBS programs
Tags:
playoffs
It would be nice to see the committee send an early message
by Jim (OFD) , Naptown, Monday, December 09, 2013, 05:38 (4065 days ago) @ Jay
And that message needs to be: schedule better opponents. If you play cupcakes and lose a game, you are out. If you play tough teams in addition to your conference schedule (or just play ND's schedule) and drop one (possibly two close ones) along the way, you will be in the conversation.
As long as FSU, Auburn, and Bama are in
by JN, Seattle, Sunday, December 08, 2013, 21:44 (4065 days ago) @ Jay
Then Lt Gen Gould is happy. I don't care who finishes 4th, 5th, or any place else. You losers aren't going to win anyway.
And ultimately, you don't have a reason to bitch no matter who gets left out.
Baylor? When your conference is weak and your OOC schedule sucks, win all your games and by god don't get pants'd in a loss.
MSU? You had 2, maybe 3, real actual football games this year. Win or shut up.
Stanford? You lost twice. Once to Utah which counts as 2 losses on its own.
OSU? Sparty tried to Sparty you but you Sparty'd yourself. Lost to the only good team you played all year. And Urban Meyer is a weasel.
1. FSU. 2. Auburn. 3. MSU. 4. Alabama
by JD in Portland , Portland OR, Sunday, December 08, 2013, 14:20 (4066 days ago) @ Jay
This is tough.
I put MSU 3rd ahead of Bama to avoid Auburn being saddled with rematch in first game. They just beat Bama and winning the SEC is too difficult to be punished like that.
MSU over Baylor is a tough call, but Baylor loss was a stinker and later in season than Sparty narrow defeat in Sept in pretty tough road game at ND.
I think MSU improved over the season so that counts a little for me.
Stanford is a distant 6th for me. Two losses against teams that Bama would beat by 21+.
I admit to some influence in favor of SEC based on recent past performance in title games.
And in this format, I predict Bama, given a few weeks to prepare for these games, would win its third consecutive national championship.
I agree with this.
by Bill, Murrieta, CA, Sunday, December 08, 2013, 18:10 (4066 days ago) @ JD in Portland
Although I would flip Alabama/Michigan State. Avoiding a rematch isn't a valid reason to make Florida State play what should be a higher seeded team.
NCAA BBall committee purposely avoids early rematches
by KelleyCook , Monday, December 09, 2013, 04:29 (4065 days ago) @ Bill
- No text -
given that the SEC has won the damn thing 7 yrs in a row
by JD in Portland , Portland OR, Sunday, December 08, 2013, 19:05 (4066 days ago) @ Bill
and never lost the game if one of their teams was in it, the proper order this yr should probably be Auburn, Bama, FSU, MSU.
But I just didn't have the stomach to reward the cheating bastards that much.
Maybe FSU could beat one of them, but I wouldn't even consider taking that bet.
and there's real money at stake here too
by Jay , San Diego, Sunday, December 08, 2013, 13:59 (4066 days ago) @ Jay
Not just in terms of bowl purses, but how much the winners will be able to reap in prestige, recruiting mojo, ticket sales, etc, etc.
I still can't believe they left it up to this, a small committee rife with conflict-of-interest.
I always viewed the sportswriters as the least bad option of a bunch of bad options. It would be a much bigger canvas, and at least on the surface you have the appearance of propriety. Instead, we will have a situation where a committee member is a direct beneficiary of voting his conference (or even his own team!).
1. FSU 2. Auburn. 3. Alabama. 4. Baylor
by DCT, Sunday, December 08, 2013, 13:47 (4066 days ago) @ Jay
Auburn for their body of work down the stretch and winning the SEC.
Alabama because they deserve a shot.
Baylor-- because I think they are the next best team. One bad loss to a Top 10 team isn't the worst thing to happen.
Hell, Alabama lost to LSU and Texas AM (at home) and still won a NC.
I say no to Michigan State because I think the Big 10 is worse than we even think it is.
No to Stanford because you can't lose to Utah AND USC and still get in when there are other conference champions with better resumes.
I agree with this
by CW (Rakes) , Harlan County, Sunday, December 08, 2013, 14:14 (4066 days ago) @ DCT
Losing to Tommy Rees should disqualify you from the final four, and I don't know who Michigan State's second best win is. Losing to Utah and USC should also disqualify you. Losing on the road to a very good team with a bunch of injuries piling up is more excusable. Baylor's SOS isn't great, but I don't think one-loss MSU or two-loss Stanford is clearly better.
Simply losing to OkieSt would have been acceptable...
by KelleyCook , Monday, December 09, 2013, 04:35 (4065 days ago) @ CW (Rakes)
But the bears trudged off the field wondering why the trainer forgot to pack the K-Y
1-FSU, 2-Auburn, 3-Baylor, 4-MSU
by JRT, Island of Misfit Toys, Sunday, December 08, 2013, 13:39 (4066 days ago) @ Jay
No Alabama? Why? I'd agree they are probably one of the top two teams in the country in terms of ability to win this hypothetical tournament. It really depends on how you're looking at this thing.
I would think we'd preserve more of the regular season magic if it was like the NCAA tournament used to be, where you had to win your conference to get in.
Alabama lost that miracle game to Auburn. Would that game really matter if Bammer won the NC the same year?
My personal rule would be only conference champs (or independents).
No Alabama, no Ohio State, no Oregon, no MIssouri, no way.
Baylor and MSU edge out Stanford based on winning percentage, and strength of loss(es).
Yeah. I'd go with this.
by domer.mq , Sunday, December 08, 2013, 18:11 (4066 days ago) @ JRT
But I'm REAL shaky on even including MSU.
I think the b1g is AWFUL.
--
Sometimes I rhyme slow sometimes I rhyme quick.
This would be my pick
by NDTex , Dallas, TX, Sunday, December 08, 2013, 15:01 (4066 days ago) @ JRT
I don't want to see playoff rematches. Period. Otherwise, yes, the regular season really loses its punch.
Stanford would be another one that I'd consider, but two loses looms too large for me.
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it's a revealing exercise
by Jay , San Diego, Sunday, December 08, 2013, 13:51 (4066 days ago) @ JRT
The same arguments are going to be had inside that room. So much depends on how you frame your thinking and how you value things:
* "Good Wins" versus "Bad Losses": is a Good Win better than a Bad Loss is bad?
* Results versus Hypotheticals: i.e. the Alabama Dilemma, or "who would win 9 times out of 10" versus "who actually won the one time they did play?"
Results vs Hypotheticals is the really tough one I think.
by Mike (Embrey), Mountain Holler, Sunday, December 08, 2013, 14:16 (4066 days ago) @ Jay
Good Wins vs Bad Losses - This one is tough because of what I was getting at below, and I think you even mentioned it in the guise of Alvarez. There isn't enough inter-conference competition to really compare. I think this has a much greater impact on the good wins portion though. Bad teams are pretty obvious; we may not be able to perfectly compare conferences, but if you're 5-7 anywhere you can't be all that good. Bad losses are more clear.
Results vs Hypotheticals - I've gone back and forth on this one, and I find myself starting to think that in a 4-team playoff if you don't win your conference you probably shouldn't be in. I think I'd stop short of making it an outright rule though. With five power conferences, plus Notre Dame (and BYU? I guess?) there ought to be four legitimate teams to fill out a playoff without doubling up from a conference.
I also considered that maybe you should be required to at least make the conference title game, but that doesn't account for conferences where the balance of power has been grossly weighted towards one division (like the SEC West has been for a while). I dunno.
For this year I think I'm coming down in agreement with JRT - FSU, Auburn, MSU, Baylor. I think Alabama is better than MSU and Baylor, and I think they'd beat Auburn more often than not (and probably FSU, but who knows). I certainly wouldn't have a big problem with Alabama being in the playoff, I'm just not convinced the framework should allow it.
Results 100 times out of a 100
by CK08, Sunday, December 08, 2013, 15:36 (4066 days ago) @ Mike (Embrey)
edited by CK08, Sunday, December 08, 2013, 19:17
Otherwise the regular season loses all meaning, and the four teams get in purely out of reputation.
I also think "hypotheticals" can be approximated using other measures, like strength of schedule, average margin of victory, etc.
injuries, too
by Jay , San Diego, Sunday, December 08, 2013, 15:40 (4066 days ago) @ CK08
What if a key player (or players) were missing, and the team lost as a result? Say other than that, the team went 11-1. How should the committee treat that team? Hypothetically they would have won that game.
What about the flip - team has great year, but lost a star
by Mike (Embrey), Mountain Holler, Sunday, December 08, 2013, 15:48 (4066 days ago) @ Jay
Don't get hung up on the particulars of actual 2013 schedules in this example, just go with it for the hypothetical. We could create one for any year, I'm just using this one.
Example: OSU lost earlier in the year but went on to beat MSU last night to win the Big 10 and finished 12-1. This will result in them finishing #3 in the BCS behind FSU, Auburn, and ahead of Bama, Baylor, and Stanford.
But in the 4th quarter Braxton Miller tore his ACL. He's out.
How does that impact OSU's entry into a playoff?
Cincinnati lost a #1 seed in 2000 after Kenyon Martin got hurt late in the season. Does OSU lose out on a playoff appearance because without Miller they very clearly aren't among the 4 best teams in the country (or 24, probably)?
In that case I think they probably should, because there are other viable teams and it's kind of splitting hairs anyway.
Example 2: What if Winston went down with an ACL tear last night? Is FSU out? Are they seeded lower than #1 because of it?
I may be wrong
by Bryan (IrishCavan), Howth Castle and Environs, Sunday, December 08, 2013, 13:59 (4066 days ago) @ Jay
But wasn't there a memo that said the committee would give extra weight to conference champs?
I think somebody involved articulated that, yes
by Jay , San Diego, Sunday, December 08, 2013, 14:13 (4066 days ago) @ Bryan (IrishCavan)
I can't find the quote at the moment, but I read it as the speaker's personal preference and not an explicit rule for the committee.
I can't see them holding tight to that requirement. It seems to have been already debated and discarded. The idea of conference champs-ONLY was rejected.
#1 FSU #2 Auburn #3 Alabama #4 Baylor
by hobbs, San Diego, CA, Sunday, December 08, 2013, 13:28 (4066 days ago) @ Jay
edited by hobbs, Sunday, December 08, 2013, 13:34
* I'll champion Baylor.
1. FSU is undefeated and has smoked pretty much everyone.
2. I'll seed Auburn #2 based on their record and win against previously unbeaten and #1 ranked Alabama. But IMO it really doesn't matter.
3. Alabama. I think they're either the best or 2nd best team in the nation. In a rematch against #2 Auburn I think 'Bamma tunes 'em up.
4. Baylor. I can't put a 2 loss LSJU team ahead of BU. They've been impressive all year long and have only lost one game. I give BU the nod over MSU based on their tougher schedule.
FSU drills BU & Alabama beats AU.
FSU V Alabama for the NC. I think those are the two best teams in college football.
FSU, Alabama, Auburn, Stanford
by LaFortune Teller , South Bend, Sunday, December 08, 2013, 13:06 (4066 days ago) @ Jay
I picked the Seminoles because they have been the most dominant team in football this year (and one of the most dominant ever). Their schedule was weak, so I'm not sure if they're my No.1 seed.
I picked the Crimson Tide because except for one game, they were in the conversation with Florida State as the most dominant team in football this season. I actually think they are the best team of the four.
I picked Auburn because they had the most impressive finish of the season with two wins over top-10 teams. They are playing their best football when it matters most. They are lucky to be here, though, not just because of the close calls and miracle finishes, but in my mind, they practically eliminated themselves by losing by two touchdowns to LSU this year. The best teams either don't lose at all or lose in very close games. Solid overall schedule.
I picked Stanford because I want to start an argument in the room about where we actually stand when it comes to schedule strength. And I'm not happy to have to defend a team that lost to Utah and USC, but they lost those games by a combined nine points, so that lessens the blow for me. And their wins were very, very good. Best set of victories among the four teams, best overall schedule by far.
I don't want to guarantee an SEC team to the title game, so I'm splitting Auburn and Alabama into two semifinals.
Semifinal 1: Florida State hosts Auburn
Semifinal 2: Alabama hosts Stanford
Alvarez argues that MSU's win over Ohio State
by Jay , San Diego, Sunday, December 08, 2013, 13:10 (4066 days ago) @ LaFortune Teller
trumps any win by Stanford this year. Rebuttal?
(I'm assuming you are Pat Haden in this scenario).
Based on what? Their ranking?
by Chris , Raleigh, NC, Sunday, December 08, 2013, 13:15 (4066 days ago) @ Jay
MSU's win is better because AnOSU play nobody'd themselves to No. 2?
It's about body of work vs. one win, no?
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Stanford lost *twice*, one of those to a 5-7 team
by Jay , San Diego, Sunday, December 08, 2013, 13:20 (4066 days ago) @ Chris
Alvarez can't elevate a team to the finals who has such an ugly blemish on its record.
Michigan State lost once, and to a respectable Notre Dame team much earlier in the season. And since it's beneath me to mention questionable pass interference calls from that game, I will not dignify these proceedings with such miscarriages of justice.
Indeed. And USC is no longer ranked, either
by Jack , Sunday, December 08, 2013, 13:34 (4066 days ago) @ Jay
- No text -
That's your best argument
by Jeremy (WeIsND), Offices of Babip Pecota Vorp & Eckstein, Sunday, December 08, 2013, 13:24 (4066 days ago) @ Jay
But Condi values the impressive nature of wins over the questionable nature of losses.
And she's a shill for the Cardinal, obviously.
Response
by Jeremy (WeIsND), Offices of Babip Pecota Vorp & Eckstein, Sunday, December 08, 2013, 13:15 (4066 days ago) @ Jay
OSU's status artificially pumped up by the weakness of the B1G. Stanford played a much tougher schedule, had 4 wins against Top 25 teams (most in pretty impressive fashion), versus the 1 win that MSU had against a Top 25 team.
Stanford's body of wins are just much more impressive than MSU's.
Who did Stanford beat?
by Mike (Embrey), Mountain Holler, Sunday, December 08, 2013, 13:38 (4066 days ago) @ Jeremy (WeIsND)
edited by Mike (Embrey), Sunday, December 08, 2013, 13:52
I'm playing a little devil's advocate here, but only a little. Everyone is so quick to dismiss the Big 10, but who did Stanford beat?
Stanford's non-con was: San Jose State, Army, Notre Dame. Meh.
They beat Oregon.
Oregon's non-con was: Nicholls State, Virginia, Tennessee. Meh.
They beat Arizona State twice.
ASU's non-con was: Sacramento State, Wisconsin, Notre Dame. Not bad, but are we seriously giving them full credit for the win at home over Wisconsin? It was essentially a draw that they won due to an utterly bizarre final play; it certainly didn't demonstrate any level of superiority for the Pac 10 over the Big 10.
UCLA beat up Nebraska early in the year so there's a little credit for that.
Do we really know how good Oregon is? We thought we did. I thought I did. But really there's not enough inter-conference play to actually know.
A lot of folks have complained - correctly I think - that the SEC is sort of self-fulfilling at this point. They get a bunch of high early season rankings, then beat up on each other and everyone screams about how tough the SEC is because of it. And folks who aren't part of the SEC groupthink say, "Hey, that's nonsense" because it is. This isn't any different.
Oregon, ASU (x2), UCLA, ND
by Jeremy (WeIsND), Offices of Babip Pecota Vorp & Eckstein, Sunday, December 08, 2013, 13:51 (4066 days ago) @ Mike (Embrey)
MSU and Stanford both played ND OOC, so that's a wash.
Had MSU played and beat Wisconsin, the only other B1G team worth half a damn, then I'd give MSU a bit more credit. But go ahead and look at MSU's resume and tell me what their 2nd best win is.
I'm not arguing that MSU's schedule was that good.
by Mike (Embrey), Mountain Holler, Sunday, December 08, 2013, 14:03 (4066 days ago) @ Jeremy (WeIsND)
It wasn't. MSU's non-con sucked. But unlike Stanford, they didn't lose to Indiana (Utah).
And they were every bit as dominating. Stanford won by an average of 14ppg, Michigan State by 16ppg.
Stanford's very good. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see them beat MSU in Pasadena. But in a hypothetical 2013 playoff based off results, they haven't earned it.
I don't think its a slam dunk
by Jeremy (WeIsND), Offices of Babip Pecota Vorp & Eckstein, Sunday, December 08, 2013, 14:06 (4066 days ago) @ Mike (Embrey)
And the 2 losses are certainly troublesome to my argument.
But I can't get over the fact that, outside of their loss to ND, and their win against OSU in their 13th game, they played absolutely no one.
If I were on the committee, I'd put more weight on who you beat than who you lost to. I definitely understand you position and would hope that the selection committee would engage in similar discussions.
(1) FSU, (2) Auburn, (3) Alabama, (4) Stanford
by Jeremy (WeIsND), Offices of Babip Pecota Vorp & Eckstein, Sunday, December 08, 2013, 12:58 (4066 days ago) @ Jay
IMO, #4 is the only debateable slot. Bama was pretty clearly the best team in the country until they lost a road game to the team directly in front of them in the flukiest manner possible. Even though they didn't participate in the SEC title game, they ran through their SEC schedule like a knife through butter.
I don't feel great about Stanford, but: 1) I think the Pac-12 is the 2nd best conference, 2) I think Stanford is pretty clearly the best team in that conference, and 3) Stanford has the most "good" resume wins of any team in the country.
Others considered and dismissed for #4:
MSU - Schedule too soft. If the Committee really looks at SOS closely, the B1G teams like OSU, MSU, Wisky and maybe Michigan are going to be significantly hurt by the continued watering-down of the conference.
Baylor - You can lose a game, but you better not get thumped in said game, and your other resume better look pretty good. Big XII really, really soft again this year, and Baylor didn't do anything OOC.
South Carolina - Stanford's 2-loss wins better than the Cocks. SC(e) may have "better" losses, but I put more value on who you beat than who you lose to.
This is where I come down too
by JN, Seattle, Sunday, December 08, 2013, 19:11 (4065 days ago) @ Jeremy (WeIsND)
Biggest issue for me is how I vote Bama in even though they didn't even make it to their conf title game. It's one thing to not win your conference but to not even win your division?
I guess since I'm not going to give conf winners an auto bid, then I can live with letting in a team that doesn't even play for their title.
Condi probably agrees with you
by Jay , San Diego, Sunday, December 08, 2013, 13:02 (4066 days ago) @ Jeremy (WeIsND)
A Rice ballot would probably look like yours.
Alvarez's vote
by Jay , San Diego, Sunday, December 08, 2013, 12:55 (4066 days ago) @ Jay
edited by Jay, Sunday, December 08, 2013, 12:59
I, Barry Alvarez, have selected these Final Four teams:
1 - Florida State. This is a no brainer.
2 - Michigan State. The Spartans have the best defense in football, and being a defensive-minded guy, I believe defense wins championships. Their early season loss to Notre Dame was long ago and does not reflect the excellence with which they're currently playing. I believe them to be the best of the 1-loss teams. (No Big Ten bias played a role in this selection.)
3 - Auburn. Although I think Alabama may beat them 2 out 3 times in a rematch, they deserve to reach the playoffs because of their head-to-head win. I suspect that Auburn's offensive pyrotechnics have masked serious deficiencies with the Tigers for my fellow committee members, so I would lobby my fellow committee members to arrange an Auburn-Michigan State matchup in the first round to solve this debate before moving on to the finals.
4 - Baylor. They are the last 1-loss team from an unrepresented conference, and I believe the Big 12 deserves representation in the Final Four. To those who would say this is a "weak" conference, I do not think there have been enough games between conferences to make that claim. I would like to see this proven out in actual competition, so Baylor gets my last slot.
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1 Florida State vs 4 Baylor
2 Michigan State vs 3 Auburn
I'm solidly on the side of Alvarez here. Bama is out
by KelleyCook , Monday, December 09, 2013, 04:57 (4065 days ago) @ Jay
Bama had their late season shot to make the playoffs and they blew it. We now already know the answer of who deserves a playoff spot: Alabama or Auburn?
The "they probably would have won 8 times out of 10" argument really isn't worth two ChuckyCheese tokens to me.
They lost, they are done.
I'm Ty Willingham
by Jim (fisherj08) , A Samoan kid's laptop, Sunday, December 08, 2013, 12:53 (4066 days ago) @ Jay
I pick a nice, sensible pair of pleated slacks and a 10 AM tee time at Pebble Beach.
And FSU, Auburn, Bama, Sparty
Michigan State is Ty's alma mater and
by Jack , Sunday, December 08, 2013, 13:12 (4066 days ago) @ Jim (fisherj08)
he likes their restrooms.
(4) MSU v (1) FSU, (3) ALA v (2) AUB
by Tim, Chicago, IL, Sunday, December 08, 2013, 12:51 (4066 days ago) @ Jay
edited by Tim, Sunday, December 08, 2013, 12:55
I'd prefer these games be played in the home stadium of the higher seeded team.
Edit: Rationale.
Baylor got stomped in a game, out.
Stanford lost two games, out.
OSU loses out to MSU.
Alabama lost on a flukish play and is probably still the best SEC team. Their one loss is the best of the one loss teams. OSU would try to make this claim too but they haven't beaten anyone. Also, pit the two SEC schools against each other to avoid all SEC final.
Agree, and MSU has one loss, Stanford has 2
by Jack , Sunday, December 08, 2013, 13:08 (4066 days ago) @ Tim
A 2 loss team from a major conference shouldn't be ranked ahead of a one loss team from a major conference, even the Big Ten, let alone one that just beat the #2 team in the country.
It's between Michigan State and Baylor for #4, and I just don't like Baylor's lack of a defense when push comes to shove.
Would you put Baylor ahead of Stanford?
by Chris , Raleigh, NC, Sunday, December 08, 2013, 13:11 (4066 days ago) @ Jack
I can't decide on my 4th team but I'm enjoying peoples arguments for/against teams.
--
"F--- everyone who isn't us."
#Team128
Yes. Stanford lost to Utah
by Jack , Sunday, December 08, 2013, 13:13 (4066 days ago) @ Chris
- No text -
Ok. Do you think Baylor is better than Stanford?
by Chris , Raleigh, NC, Sunday, December 08, 2013, 13:16 (4066 days ago) @ Jack
- No text -
--
"F--- everyone who isn't us."
#Team128
No, I do think Stanford is better
by Jack , Sunday, December 08, 2013, 13:33 (4066 days ago) @ Chris
But the game is decided on the field.
Stanford lost to 2 unranked teams.
Well
by Mark, O Town, Sunday, December 08, 2013, 12:57 (4066 days ago) @ Tim
I'd hate to see Auburn play Alabama again, but I agree with these picks. I'd have
1 FSU vs 4 MSU
3 Bama vs 2 Auburn.
These seem like the best 4 teams to me. You could argue Baylor should be in the mix, but they played one less game than MSU, so MSU gets the nod, IMO.
I agree with Tim's rationale entirely.