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More Coaching Record Sausage

by NDSF, Saturday, July 07, 2012, 08:56
edited by NDSF, Saturday, July 07, 2012, 09:21

Following up on the post from earlier in the week - previously I posted record versus teams that finished in the top ten while a coach was at the program he was most successful at - Holtz while at ND, Hayes while at OSU, Royal at Texas, etc. The following list is complete career of many notable coaches for all schools they coached at and for their entire careers, with the data divided various ways and my comments under each. The usual caveat - these are very tough games to win - they are against what turned out to be the top ten teams at the end of the year. As a result, almost everyone has a losing record. But these wins are the ultimate quality wins to get and say a lot about how a coach does in the biggest game, where talent advantage is minimized, the greatest pressure is on and he is coaching against his toughest peers.

Wins vs Teams That Ended Season in AP Final Top Ten (Entire Career)

1. Bobby Bowden 22-45-1 .331 .562 per year (40 yrs)
2. Bear Bryant 19-25-3 .436 .539 per year (38 yrs)
3. Lou Holtz 19-35-2 .357 .575 per year (33 yrs)
4. Barry Switzer 18-15-1 .529 1.15 per year (16 yrs)
5. Tom Osborne 16-33-0 .326 .640 per year (25 yrs)
6. Steve Spurrier 15-33-1 .316 .704 per year (22 yrs)
7. Frank Leahy 14-6-3 .673 1.19 per year (13 yrs)
8. Darrell Royal 14-24-2 .375 .652 per year (23 yrs)
9. Woody Hayes 14-25-4 .372 .571 per year (28 yrs)
10. Joe Paterno 14-49-0 .222 .304 per year (46 yrs)
11. Pete Carroll 12-4-0 .750 1.33 per year (9yrs)
12. Lloyd Carr 11-15-0 .423 .846 per year (13 yrs)
13. Dennis Erickson 11-17-0 .392 .578 per year (19 yrs)
14. Don James 11-20-0 .354 .500 per year (22 yrs)
15. Vince Dooley 11-20-0 .354 .440 per year (25 yrs)
16. Duffy Daugherty 11-24-1 .319 .578 per year (20 yrs)
17. Nick Saban 11-20-0 .354 .687 per year (16 yrs)_
18. Phil Fulmer 11-24-0 .314 .647 per year (16.5 yrs)
19. John McKay 10-19-4 .363 .625 per year (16 yrs)
20. Les Miles 9-15-0 .375 .818 per yr (11 yrs)
21. Ara Parseghian 9-24-3 .291 .479 per year (24 yrs)
22. Bob Stoops 9-10-0 .473 .692 per year (13 yrs)
23. Jimmy Johnson 8-13-0 .380 .800 per year (10 yrs)
24. John Robinson 8-15-0 .347 .666 per year (18 yrs)
25. Terry Donahue 8-23-3 .279 .400 per ear (20 yrs)
26. Red Blaik 7-9-2 .444 .374 per year (25 yrs)
27. Jim Tressell 7-10-0 .411 .700 per year (10 yrs)
28. Bob Devaney 7-10-3 .416 .468 per year (16 yrs)
29. Bud Wilkinson 7-12-0 .368 .411 per year (17 yrs)
30. Dan Devine 7-21-2 .266 .363 per year (22 yrs)
31. Bobby Dodd 7-23-1 .241 .340 per year (22 yrs)
32. Frank Broyles 7-25-0 .218 .350 per year (20 yrs)
33. Bo Schembechler 7-27-0 .220 .277 per year (27 yrs)
34. Urban Meyer 6-8-0 .428 .600 per year (10 yrs)
35. Fritz Crisler 6-13-0 .315 .500 per year (18 yrs)
36. Mack Brown 6-28-0 .176 .222 per year (27 yrs)
37. John Cooper 5-25-2 .187 .217 per year (24 yrs)
38. Frank Thomas 4-11-0 .266 .400 per year (19 yrs)
39. Bob Neyland 4-8-0 .333 .333 per year (21 yrs)
40. Bill McCartney 4 .195 .346 per year (13 yrs)
41. Dana Bible 3-7-0 .300 .272 per year (30 yrs)
42. Danny Ford 3-13-1 .205 1.87 per year (16 yrs)
43. R.C. Slocum 2-19-0 .095 .153 per year (14 yrs)

Some thoughts. You have to give Bowden some credit. He might have been a crook who stockpiled talent and let his staff handle everything, but the numbers are what they are. He won a ton of games against top tier competition. Once again, I need to point out that these stats put Holtz\'s achievements at ND into even starker perspective. He spent the majority of his career at NC State, South Carolina, Arkansas and Minnesota, yet is in the top three all-time in big wins. He got 15 of those 19 wins in one eleven-year period at ND - that is an astonishing rate of big wins in an eleven year period - unmatched by any coach on the list for such a short period.

Note what Pete Carroll did in only nine years - nearly getting into the top ten. Similarly, Switzer in just 16 years, while all those above him coached much longer. Notable laggard is Bo Schembecler near the bottom, as well as Mack Brown - not so many wins against the top teams for these notable coaches compared to similarly famous peers.

Ranked by winning percentage for total career

1. Pete Carroll 12-4-0 .750 1.33 per year (9yrs)
2. Frank Leahy 14-6-3 .673 1.19 per year (13 yrs)
3. Barry Switzer 18-15-1 .529 1.15 per year (16 yrs)
4. Bob Stoops 9-10-0 .473 .692 per year (13 yrs)
5. Red Blaik 7-9-2 .444 .374 per year (25 yrs)
6. Bear Bryant 19-25-3 .436 .539 per year (38 yrs)
7. Urban Meyer 6-8-0 .428 .600 per year (10 yrs)
8. Lloyd Carr 11-15-0 .423 .846 per year (13 yrs)
9. Bob Devaney 7-10-3 .416 .468 per year (16 yrs)
10. Jim Tressell 7-10-0 .411 .700 per year (10 yrs)
11. Dennis Erickson 11-17-0 .392 .578 per year (19 yrs)
12. Jimmy Johnson 8-13-0 .380 .800 per year (10 yrs)
13. Les Miles 9-15-0 .375 .818 per year (11 yrs)
14. Darrell Royal 14-24-2 .375 .652 per year (23 yrs)
15. Woody Hayes 14-25-4 .372 .571 per year (28 yrs)
16. Bud Wilkinson 7-12-0 .368 .411 per year (17 yrs)
17. John McKay 10-19-4 .363 .625 per year (16 yrs)
18. Lou Holtz 19-35-2 .357 .575 per year (33 yrs)
19. Nick Saban 11-20-0 .354 .687 per yr (16 yrs)
20. Don James 11-20-0 .354 .500 per yr (22 yrs)
21. Vince Dooley 11-20-0 .354 .440 per year (25 yrs)
22. John Robinson 8-15-0 .347 .666 per year (18 yrs)
23. Bob Neyland 4-8-0 .333 .333 per year (21 yrs)
24. Bobby Bowden 22-45-1 .331 .562 per year (40 yrs)
25. Tom Osborne 16-33-0 .326 .640 per year (25 yrs)
26. Duffy Daugherty 11-24-1 .319 .578 per year (20 yrs)
27. Steve Spurrier 15-33-1 .316 .704 per year (22 yrs)
28. Fritz Crisler 6-13-0 .315 .500 per year (18 yrs)
29. Phil Fulmer 11-24-0 .314 .647 per year (16.5 yrs)
30. Ara Parseghian 9-24-3 .291 .583 per year (18 yrs)
31. Terry Donahue 8-23-3 .279 .400 per year (20 yrs)
32. Dana Bible 3-7-0 .300 .272 per year (30 yrs)
33. Frank Thomas 4-11-0 .266 .400 per year (19 yrs)
34. Dan Devine 7-21-2 .266 .363 per year (22 yrs)
35. Bobby Dodd 7-23-1 .241 .340 per year (22 yrs)
36. Joe Paterno 14-49-0 .222 .304 per year (46 yrs)
37. Frank Broyles 7-25-0 .218 .350 per year (20 yrs)
38. John Cooper 5-25-2 .187 .217 per year (24 yrs)
39. Mack Brown 6-28-0 .176 .222 per year (27 yrs)
40. Bo Schembechler 7-27-0 .220 .277 per year (27 yrs)
41. Bill McCartney 4-13-1 .195 .346 per year (13 yrs)
42. Danny Ford 3-13-1 .205 .187 per year (16 yrs)
43. R.C. Slocum 2-19-0 .095 .153 per year (14 yrs)

Notably, the only three coaches to make the top ten in wins and winning percentage were Leahy, Switzer and Bryant.

I debated whether to include Pete Carroll, him having not even coached ten years. NCAA requires ten years to count you in official winning percentage lists I believe, but I included him just to show how remarkable his run was. Had he coached longer I think that WP would have leveled off as we saw the signs in 2009 of the wheels coming off.

Among active coaches, Stoops and Meyer have winning percentages in the all-time top ten. It will be interesting to see if they can remain at that level.

Again, I have to put a plug in for Holtz. He is in the top half of this elite handfull of coaches for winning percentage, yet much more than half of his career was spent at non-elite schools. If you just took his eleven years at ND, he had a top five in winning percentage and already is in the top three for wins for his entire carreer - I think among great coaches Holtz is very underrated in the public mind, when compared to coaches who feasted on weak schedules with superior talent like Bo, Paterno and Osborne, and as a result had higher overall winning percentages. Those coaches have a real advantage. Look at Osborne\'s lower winning percentage than Holtz in big games despite the fact that his entire career was at a ready-built Nebraska program, while Holtz spent half his time at backwaters like Minn, So Car and NC State. Of course you could argue that Holtz\'s problem was he could never maintain and could only build. Nevertheless, the man was one hell of a big-game coach.

Parseghian's career winning percentage is a special case - you have to account for the fact that one third of his career was spent at the worst football school in the Big Ten. His winning percentage at ND is number six of the top 43 coaches when you just look at their tenures at their main school.

Coaches who also stand out to me are Darrell Royal and Spurrier considering both longevity and WP and total wins. Again, notable winning percentage disappointments are Paterno and Schembechler.


WINS PER YEAR AGAINST TOP TEN TEAMS (overall)

1. Pete Carroll 1.33 per year
2. Frank Leahy 1.19 per year
3. Barry Switzer 1.15 per year
4. Lloyd Carr .846 per year
5. Les Miles .818 per year
6. Jimmy Johnson .800 per year
7. Steve Spurrier .704 per year
8. Jim Tressell .700 per year
9. Bob Stoops .692 per year
10. Nick Saban .687 per year
11. John Robinson .666 per year
12. Darrell Royal .652 per year
13. Phil Fulmer .647 per year
14. Tom Osborne .640 per year
15. John McKay .625 per year
16. Urban Meyer .600 per year
17. Ara Parseghian .583 per year
18. Dennis Erickson .578 per year
19. Duffy Daugherty .578 per year
20. Lou Holtz .575 per year
21. Bobby Bowden .562 per year
22. Bear Bryant .539 per year
23. Don James .500
24. Fritz Crisler .500 per year
25. Bob Devaney .468 per year
26. Vince Dooley .440 per year
27. Mack Brown .428 per year
28. Woody Hayes .424. per year
29. Bud Wilkinson .411 per year
30. Terry Donahue .400 per year
31. Frank Thomas .400 per year
32. Red Blaik .374 per year
33. Dan Devine .363 per year
34. Bill McCartney .346 per year
35. Bobby Dodd .340 per year
36. Frank Broyles .350 per year
37. Bob Neyland .333 per year
38. Joe Paterno .304 per year
39. Dana Bible .272 per year
40. Bo Schembechler .260 per year
41. John Cooper .217 per year
42. Danny Ford .187 per year
43. R.C. Slocum .153 per year

Note that three of the current top ten all-time in this category are current coaches in the SEC. Two things could be at work here: possibly a tendency to play more top teams nowadays or, more likely, the concentrated superiority of the level of football in the SEC compared to all other times in history. It will be interesting to see if these coaches can keep this pace. My guess is Saban yes, Miles, Les likely to do so, IMO. In general, this list is more tilted toward active coaches who are at their peak. The historical data shows they will tend cool off as their career goes on. It also tends to favor those who had short careers, did very well, then got out - a la Jimmy Johnson.

As a result, the most notable coaches on this list, I think, are those who coached a long time but still were in the top half of wins per season. Spurrier, Royal, McKay, Parseghian and Holtz stand out in that regard.

Not to beat a dead horse, but note again the pathetic wins per year for Schembechler and Peterno. You know, a lot of people mock Woody Hayes for his personal foibles, but he was in a different league in terms of big wins from every other notable long-tenured great Big Ten coach. He actually won Rose Bowls and big intersectional games when he was in his prime.

Tags:
coaches

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  613 views

This is great stuff

by Eric M, Western New York, Saturday, July 07, 2012, 09:51 @ NDSF

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do you have that in a spreadsheet?

by Jay ⌂, San Diego, Saturday, July 07, 2012, 09:32 @ NDSF

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Unfortunately, no.

by NDSF, Saturday, July 07, 2012, 09:33 @ Jay

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here you go

by Jay ⌂, San Diego, Saturday, July 07, 2012, 10:02 @ NDSF
edited by Jay, Saturday, July 07, 2012, 10:06

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aqu7YH9xlSk0dFBESXJqVXN3UVZkajFkRzQ4TXA2Mnc

Coaches Vs Final AP Top 10

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How did you do that?

by Mike (bart), Sunday, July 08, 2012, 09:43 @ Jay

[ No text ]

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google docs to set it up

by Jay ⌂, San Diego, Sunday, July 08, 2012, 13:01 @ Mike (bart)
edited by Jay, Sunday, July 08, 2012, 15:48

then a couple of tags to put it into a post here.

1. I copied NDSF's data into a google spreadsheet, combining the three views into one table (it's essentially the same data set sorted three ways).

2. shared the google doc with NDSF (via the 'sharing' tab) so that he could keep it and edit it as he see fits.

3. embedded it in the post using the google spreadsheet tags that we set up. (see upper right, 'Formatting Help' for more details).

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Sorry. i meant how did you get the data from text to

by Mike (bart), Sunday, July 08, 2012, 13:59 @ Jay

Spreadsheet so quickly?

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copy/paste to excel; "text to columns"

by Jay ⌂, San Diego, Sunday, July 08, 2012, 14:11 @ Mike (bart)

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The Alliance is not going to be happy about this.

by Slainte Joe, Raleigh, Sunday, July 08, 2012, 14:20 @ Jay

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Magic.

by Pat (Moco), Slave Den, Brian Cook's Basement, Sunday, July 08, 2012, 11:19 @ Mike (bart)

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Thanks

by NDSF, Saturday, July 07, 2012, 18:49 @ Jay

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