That's not what the 4th factor above is limited to.

by Kevin , Monday, August 27, 2012, 11:14 (4251 days ago) @ Pat (Moco)

That refers to the whole subjective package: team morale, sniping in the press, sideline stuff, player & recruit defections (not explicitly mentioned above), etc. These don't show up in wins and losses, but they're still relevant to projecting where this team might be headed under Kelly.

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Complete thread:

kickoff week. 'big picture' question-- - Jay, 2012-08-27, 08:22
- Sept '10 big picture thread here, btw - Jay, 2012-08-27, 12:44
- for me it's a two factor analysis - HumanRobot, 2012-08-27, 10:22
  - Quick question with regars to #2 - River, 2012-08-27, 11:09
    - no clue - HumanRobot, 2012-08-27, 11:15
      - Make it simple. - River, 2012-08-27, 11:18
        
        is that an important question? - HumanRobot, 2012-08-27, 11:30
        
        No way he has a rolodex. - domer.mq, 2012-08-27, 11:41
        
        I heard he switched to a Samsung two weeks ago - Greg, 2012-08-27, 11:47
        
        have you read some of the stuff on that trial? - HumanRobot, 2012-08-27, 12:04
        
        No. Got any links? - Greg, 2012-08-27, 12:05
        
        sure - HumanRobot, 2012-08-27, 12:12
        
        Just like Apple for half the price? Brilliant! - domer.mq, 2012-08-27, 11:48
        
        /patents snarky posts - Samari, 2012-08-27, 12:41
        
        Important or not it is the semantics. - River, 2012-08-27, 11:39
  - I agree with this line of thinking. - Savage, 2012-08-27, 10:54
    - We should get a better idea on the QB issue this year - Jeremy (WeIsND), 2012-08-27, 11:39
    - short of NickBob Meyer-Cowher - HumanRobot, 2012-08-27, 11:23
      - I almost agree. - Savage, 2012-08-27, 12:09
    - I'm curious Sav how would you have handled the QB situation - hobbs, 2012-08-27, 11:00
      - Damnit. - Savage, 2012-08-27, 11:36
        
        You made that case well - hobbs, 2012-08-27, 11:59
        
        I like the construct... - BPH, 2012-08-27, 11:53
    - on the other hand, if Golson's a success - Jay, 2012-08-27, 10:59
      - Absolutely. - Savage, 2012-08-27, 11:02
  - Who's ready for Homerun Hire list 2012? - BPH, 2012-08-27, 10:44
    - touch 'em all - Jay, 2012-08-27, 10:46
- As a rule I generally don't - hobbs, 2012-08-27, 09:31
  - A couple of things - Bill, 2012-08-27, 09:47
  - I'm beginning to think - Jeremy (WeIsND), 2012-08-27, 09:42
  - Good post. - BillyGoat, 2012-08-27, 09:33
- No F-ing Way. - domer.mq, 2012-08-27, 09:27
  - Surely you are engaging in hyperbole - NDSF, 2012-08-27, 10:18
    - My point is there exists no pragmatic bright line... - domer.mq, 2012-08-27, 10:32
      - This makes no sense, seriously - NDSF, 2012-08-27, 10:38
        
        Dude, do you really think it's a relevant possibility... - domer.mq, 2012-08-27, 10:53
        
        Where do you see the move to big-boy football? - Kevin, 2012-08-27, 11:06
        
        I'm talking operational stuff... - domer.mq, 2012-08-27, 11:13
        
        What are those things? - Kevin, 2012-08-27, 11:21
        
        He runs a tighter ship... - domer.mq, 2012-08-27, 11:39
        
        There have been some recent comments by assistants - Jeremy (WeIsND), 2012-08-27, 11:55
        
        F=ma - domer.mq, 2012-08-27, 12:03
        
        two recent citations - Jay, 2012-08-27, 11:58
        
        In terms of signed classes (edited) - Kevin, 2012-08-27, 12:10
        
        OK -- thanks for the responses. - Kevin, 2012-08-27, 11:43
        
        Dude, you are the one who raised it. - NDSF, 2012-08-27, 10:58
        
        I shouldn't have brought up the "hate factor." - domer.mq, 2012-08-27, 11:01
    - Flip this line of thought on its head though - Greg, 2012-08-27, 10:31
      - 2.7 is a weak number to keep bringing up - Savage, 2012-08-27, 10:46
        
        16/6 = 2.7 - domer.mq, 2012-08-27, 11:08
        
        It should be 16/5. - Ken Fowler, 2012-08-27, 11:12
        
        Why? - domer.mq, 2012-08-27, 11:16
        
        Thanks for that. - River, 2012-08-27, 11:02
      - Understood, but I think instability is the product - Kevin, 2012-08-27, 10:37
        
        O'Leary was prematurely terminated - Greg, 2012-08-27, 11:18
  - co-syne - Joe I, 2012-08-27, 09:46
- Well, yes and no. - Bill, 2012-08-27, 08:39
  - Agree with this - BPH, 2012-08-27, 10:27
- Not strict W/L based - Jeremy (WeIsND), 2012-08-27, 08:35
- A 6-6 season would likely trip one or more of them. - Kevin, 2012-08-27, 08:34
  - I think that's probably where I am - Pat, 2012-08-27, 09:54
  - Anybody who considers #4 - Pat (Moco), 2012-08-27, 08:37
    - I didn't really mean it as a stand-alone thing (edited) - Kevin, 2012-08-27, 08:43
    - I was asking about personal tripwires - Jay, 2012-08-27, 08:42
      - Not to be "that guy" - Pat (Moco), 2012-08-27, 09:41
        
        as a supporting factor, it's gonna creep in - Jay, 2012-08-27, 09:52
        
        Even worse: - BPH, 2012-08-27, 10:22
        
        No kidding - Jeremy (WeIsND), 2012-08-27, 10:10
        
        I've found this very interesting - Eric M, 2012-08-27, 11:18
        
        I was more referring to - Jeremy (WeIsND), 2012-08-27, 11:34
        
        How often did you ever see Holtz? - Bill, 2012-08-27, 10:20
        
        Certainly true - Jeremy (WeIsND), 2012-08-27, 10:27
        
        From Holtz we have - NDSF, 2012-08-27, 10:30
        
        I think Holtz is an accomplished 'speaker' - Bill, 2012-08-27, 10:39
        
        I am not calling for a parsing of everything Kelly says - NDSF, 2012-08-27, 10:42
        
        I think it's fair to say... - BPH, 2012-08-27, 10:36
        
        good question - Jay, 2012-08-27, 10:42
        
        To make it interesting, what does BK do better than Holtz? - NDSF, 2012-08-27, 10:46
        
        He's a better swimmer - Greg, 2012-08-27, 11:04
        
        He needs to be. - NDSF, 2012-08-27, 11:13
        
        I'm not touching the "better than Holtz" angle... - BPH, 2012-08-27, 10:52
        
        FWIW, the answer to this can be "nothing" - Dylan, 2012-08-27, 10:51
        
        Very true - but in fairness, I would give Kelly - NDSF, 2012-08-27, 10:54
        
        Yet, that seems to be a problem for many people.... - River, 2012-08-27, 11:16
        
        I am serious - NDSF, 2012-08-27, 11:23
        
        Honestly I think the good ones are all like that. - River, 2012-08-27, 11:43
        
        no lisp - Jay, 2012-08-27, 11:05
        
        Good one. Also more Irish - NDSF, 2012-08-27, 11:11
        
        he'd make a good Father Flanagan - Jay, 2012-08-27, 11:30
        
        "For a fat guy, he doesn't sweat much." - Dylan, 2012-08-27, 11:01
        
        Yeah, Holtz is just better than everyone. - domer.mq, 2012-08-27, 10:38
        
        He spoke at the end of a Mass at the end of the '96 season. - Kevin, 2012-08-27, 10:34
        
        I don't dispute that feelings about the coach matter - Greg, 2012-08-27, 10:15
        
        Kelly may be a nice guy and a good football coach - Dylan, 2012-08-27, 10:44
        
        "He's a street fighter." -- Bob Diaco - BPH, 2012-08-27, 10:53
        
        "Charmless" is a good word. - NDSF, 2012-08-27, 10:49
        
        Just out of curiousity - Bill, 2012-08-27, 11:13
        
        Going off topic - NDSF, 2012-08-27, 11:18
        
        Saban is Belichick type personality on the collegiate level - hobbs, 2012-08-27, 11:44
        
        Definitely true - Jeremy (WeIsND), 2012-08-27, 10:16
        
        What do you think of this: - Ken Fowler, 2012-08-27, 09:51
        
        Respectfully, it's still crap. - Pat (Moco), 2012-08-27, 11:08
        
        Respectfully, I think you just fell into my trap - Ken Fowler, 2012-08-27, 11:32
        
        That's not a trap. - Pat (Moco), 2012-08-27, 11:44
        
        That's not what the 4th factor above is limited to. - Kevin, 2012-08-27, 11:14
        
        And I have a hard time blaming the coaching staff - Pat (Moco), 2012-08-27, 11:46
        
        If it continues into his third year - Kevin, 2012-08-27, 11:49
        
        I think we agree in principle. - Pat (Moco), 2012-08-27, 12:29
        
        And if you judge Saban by the same standard... - scriptcomesfirst, 2012-08-27, 11:17
        
        Which is why I said from the start that part - Kevin, 2012-08-27, 11:25
        
        Yeah, it was under your thread, but I was really... - scriptcomesfirst, 2012-08-27, 11:33
      - Somewhat OT question, particularly for the clinic guys... - Jeremy (WeIsND), 2012-08-27, 08:53
        
        I'm not sure he's an innovator so much as a... - scriptcomesfirst, 2012-08-27, 11:32
- Not just W/L, but... - Greg, 2012-08-27, 08:33
- Regular season: 8-4. - Pat (Moco), 2012-08-27, 08:32
  - Let me make sure I understand. - Slainte Joe, 2012-08-27, 08:34
    - I clarified. - Pat (Moco), 2012-08-27, 08:35
- Not at this point. I'm thinking long-term. - Ken Fowler, 2012-08-27, 08:29
  - Rees is effectively done at ND - BPH, 2012-08-27, 10:17
  - This year is the last year where subjective criteria, IMO, - BillyGoat, 2012-08-27, 08:52
- Actually have not. - River, 2012-08-27, 08:28
  - We are so effing due for a fun season. Even if it - BillyGoat, 2012-08-27, 08:59
    - I think we're going to be fun to watch this year - CK08, 2012-08-27, 09:03
      - Fun is a choice. - domer.mq, 2012-08-27, 09:49
        
        Much like bourbon. - KGB, 2012-08-27, 10:39
        
        Indeed. - Slainte Joe, 2012-08-27, 10:08
      - I am cautiously optimistic that we will be. - BillyGoat, 2012-08-27, 09:28
      - Those are really good points - Greg, 2012-08-27, 09:10
        
        MSU opens againt BSU - River, 2012-08-27, 09:45
        
        Not sure about that (with regard to MSU) - CK08, 2012-08-27, 10:20
  - Yes please. - KGB, 2012-08-27, 08:43
    - Agree - CK08, 2012-08-27, 08:58
    - Yup. That is where I am at. - River, 2012-08-27, 08:46
      - Me too - Jeff (BGS), 2012-08-27, 09:02

the Polo Grounds

That's not what the 4th factor above is limited to.